Should Married People Reply To Exes?

Summary

U Up? – “Should Married People Reply To Exes?” (July 1, 2026)

Hosts: Jordana Abraham & Jared Freid
Podcast: U Up? by Betches Media

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Episode Overview

In this engaging episode, Jordana and Jared kick off July with a lively discussion about recent New York sports euphoria, the challenges and joys of big-city single life, and nuanced takes on summertime dating fatigue. They dig into several listener questions about relationship boundaries, including the hot topic: should married people reply to their exes reaching out? As always, the co-hosts mix humor with honest advice, dissecting everything from naked Zoom meetings to why some dating apps drive singles crazy.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. New York Knicks Fever & City Camaraderie

Timestamps: 00:30 – 14:14

• The Knicks’ recent success sparked city-wide unity and collective excitement, even drawing out the most cynical New Yorkers.
• Jared and Jordana discuss their personal reactions, with Jordana feeling both part of and detached from the euphoria:
  • “There’s like a camaraderie. It feels like we’re all on the same team for once.” – Jordana (02:22)
  • Jared notes how easy it is for transplants to adapt Knicks fandom into their NYC experience.
• They debate the authenticity of bandwagon fans and the cultural phenomenon of “grown men crying” over sports outcomes.
• The conversation parallels big city living to college-campus camaraderie, reinforcing the importance of shared experiences for singles.

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2. Summer, Cynicism, and Dating App Burnout

Timestamps: 14:14 – 20:23; 18:25 – 20:27

• Kickoff for a “summer challenge”—encouraging singles to have low-pressure, in-person hangouts like coffee walks with friends, not just rely on apps (17:25).
• Both hosts describe dating app fatigue, suggesting that we’re entering “Phase Three”:
  • “Phase one... kind of, like, had to pretend you met in person. Phase two... we’re proud. Phase three? Anger.” – Jordana (18:25)
• Jared pins the issue as people seeing “the same games, the same moves, the same faces” and feeling general burnout, advocating for deletion breaks and more real-world connection.

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3. Relationship Advice: Married People, Exes, and Interpersonal Boundaries

Timestamps: 47:44 – 52:01

• Listener email: A happily married man asks whether and how to reply to a college ex who reached out with an apology after 12 years.
• Jordana and Jared discuss possible responses, balancing empathy for the ex’s closure with the importance of boundary-setting:
  • Jordana advises a brief, kind reply, ending with “Hope all is well.”
    • “Never receive a ‘hope all is well’ when reaching out to an ex. That means cordial, not interested in talking.” – Jordana (49:01)
  • Emily (Jared’s girlfriend) would recommend not replying at all, but both hosts agree a polite but non-inviting response is best.
• They touch on the pain and value of closure vs. keeping doors closed, especially for married people.

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4. Should Your Boo Be Naked on Zooms?

Timestamps: 21:29 – 34:44

• A listener writes in about her boyfriend who works from home and prefers being naked, even for Zoom meetings (“Winnie the Pooh style”).
• The hosts debate the hygiene, eroticism, and risk factors, strongly cautioning against the naked Zoom routine:
  • “You need some level of anxiety to function alongside us in this world.” – Jordana (27:31)
  • “If you want to be naked when I’m not home, that’s fine. When I’m home, put on some pants.” – Jordana (34:12)
• The consensus: it’s a reasonable request to want pants-wearing at home, especially for comfort and relationship dynamics.

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5. Red Flags, Icks, and Social Media Stalking

Timestamps: 44:45 – 46:46; 34:45 – 46:45; 44:39 – 45:28

• Multiple “icky or picky” submissions dissecting questionable dating behavior: excessive cancellations, childish Instagram/Snapchat requests, intrusive homeownership questions, and social media red flags.
• Both hosts stress trusting your gut:
  • “Anytime I do a bad thing, it’s because I drank alcohol. You can work it back. So, like, the first drink probably isn’t for you. The first cancellation, they’re probably not for you.” – Jared (45:04)
• If you’re Googling a date for social media activity, it likely means you’re not excited to meet up.

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6. Gender Differences, Dating After 40, and Setting Expectations

Timestamps: 63:41 – 80:57

• A listener asks: “Are men over 40 on the apps red flags?”
• Jared flips it: “Anyone on a dating app is going to have their own red flags,” noting it’s a lazy take to label whole groups as undatable.
• The pair unpacks differences in attitudes toward dating and commitment, especially for singles in their 40s:
  • “It’s not a waste of time to go on a date that everyone gets a little drunk and hooks up—even if it never turns into a second date, to a man in his 40s.” – Jared (67:35)
  • “You don’t need to go on three dates a week—you want one you’re excited for.” – Jordana (78:21)
• Empathy and communication urged—for both men and women—to avoid letting frustration calcify into cynicism.

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7. Red Flag or Dealbreaker: Lightning Round

Timestamps: 53:36 – End

• Rapid-fire “red flag or dealbreaker” scenarios:
  • Drops casual curse words before first date
  • Brings a hammock to a park date
  • Dominates conversation with odd topics (grasshopper larvae, etc.)
  • Admits to eating ice cream at alarming speed (ice cream phobia)
• Jared and Jordana use these stories to reiterate: fun/brunch fodder is not a dealbreaker. Know what you want, but keep perspective and humor.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On sports euphoria and cynicism:
  • “Maybe that’s what bothers me about it. I wish I could, like, be like this. And therefore, I must hate on it.” – Jordana (08:14)
• On dating advice culture:
  • “Rules that they have to go by… those feel like judgments.” – Jared (20:14)
• On the risks of naked Zooming:
  • “You need some level of anxiety to be a functioning human in this world.” – Jordana (27:31)
• On responding to exes:
  • “Never receive a ‘hope all is well’ when reaching out to an ex. That means cordial, not interested in talking.” – Jordana (49:01)
• On dating app fatigue:
  • “Phase three? Anger. We are angry at the apps.” – Jordana (18:25)
• On group labels in dating:
  • “To me, when a comedian says you can't say anything anymore, they’re just being lazy. The same with ‘men over 40 are undateable.’” – Jared (79:27)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:30 – 14:14: Knicks fever, NYC camaraderie, city as college campus
• 14:14 – 20:27: Summer dating challenge, app burnout, phase three: anger
• 21:29 – 34:44: Naked boyfriend on Zoom, relationship boundaries, pants-wearing
• 34:45 – 46:45: Icky or picky: social media, multiple cancellations, house questions
• 47:44 – 52:01: Should married people reply to exes? Boundaries and closure
• 53:36 – End: Red flag or dealbreaker lightning round, ice cream phobias, hammock guy
• 63:41 – 80:57: Are men over 40 on the apps red flags? Gendered attitudes on dating

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Takeaways

• Be honest about your boundaries—whether it’s exes, nudity, or odd behaviors at home.
• If you’re not excited about a date, you don’t have to go. Don’t let cynicism turn into bitterness.
• Trust your instincts—sometimes, an “ick” is just an “ick.”
• It’s OK (and healthy) to take a break from dating apps—try real-life connection or fun, low-stakes hangs.
• Age is just a number; red flags are about actions, not categories.

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For more on modern dating cynicism, red flags, and how to have fun anyway, listen to U Up? every week or follow @u.up.podcast.

Listener question? Email [e-mail].

Transcript

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[A]

I love the couples that listen to this show together.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

They were like, we listen together in the car and we stop it. Like they were like. And they debate all said the same thing. We stop it and we have. I ask questions. I get to hear him. And it was a lot of the women be like, I get to ask thing. I like. You now have like the right to ask.

[B]

Like it doesn't feel like it's out of nowhere, but you can get a little deeper.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Without asking a weird question.

[A]

Totally.

[B]

What do you think of cheating?

[A]

Right.

[B]

Hello and welcome back to the U UP podcast. I'm Jordana Abraham.

[A]

And I am Jared Freed. It is so good to be back here in studio with you, Jordana. How are you? What's going on? What's the haps?

[B]

I am good. Like any New Yorker with limited knowledge of anything sports related, I am. This is. I. This is my season to be excited about something I normally don't give a about.

[A]

Right. Big week for you.

[B]

Big week for New Yorkers. New Yorker.

[A]

Yeah. For all the New Yorkers. For all the Knicks fans. Congrats. Congratulations. Love it. I was watching with V in Denver.

[B]

Yeah. In Spanish.

[A]

Spanish. Yeah. They couldn't play the.

[B]

Not the same energy. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. Right. Because we live in this hellscape called 2026 where DirecTV is having an argument with ABC and so the bar has to put it on in Spanish. And we're watching the post game and.

[B]

Very funny.

[A]

We're getting like. We're trying to hear it over the dubbing, you know, like it. No, it's great. I listen, I've. I am as a. I'm a sports fan. I love storylines. I love when a town. I loved how the New York felt.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know.

[B]

Were you here?

[A]

No, I just. I came back here. I was.

[B]

Yeah. Well, I. It's funny, I had like. It's almost like I had my own personal identity crisis when. When everything was happening. Because. Yeah.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Because on the one hand I'm like, this is kind of amazing. Like this city of, like, very angry people or like everyone's feeling, like, positive. There's, like a camaraderie. There's like a, like a, like an excitement. It feels like we're all on the same team for once.

[A]

A big town felt very small for a couple weeks. Yeah.

[B]

Yes. And this is me. This is like, if I felt this, then I can't imagine being like, a real fan because you must feel like. Like it's. It's like, it's weird. It's like one of the only times it was like, okay for, like, a grown man to cry.

[A]

A lot of. A lot of men taping themselves.

[B]

Just so sad.

[A]

And putting it on social media felt like it was like your favorite influencer was trying to rift you.

[B]

Which I think is. This is like the male version of, like, of that. Of, you know, some sort of like, actual interpersonal thing that someone felt very strongly about. This is like your royal wedding.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

So on the one hand I was like, this is amazing. And on the other hand, when they won, I was like, I felt like, okay. This is like, okay. Then it's like too much. Do you know what I mean?

[A]

Then I'm like, how so?

[B]

A little like, I don't know, it's just like everyone, like, pretending they're like the biggest fan.

[A]

Oh, you and just can't get out of your cynicism.

[B]

Right. It's so that's what I'm saying. I'm like, it's kind of giving me an identity crisis. But then I'm like, am I just, like a miserable. This is exciting.

[A]

Right? Right, Right. I, you know, I'm with you. I made a, you know, when I see the Knicks win, I, you know, or when anything's happening, I'm like, what's the joke here? And I make fun of, you know, and. But I can appreciate, you know, if anyone's been listening to this show. You know, I've been like, I love this team. I think they're a great group of guys. Like, just generally like, yeah, people really

[B]

seem to like them.

[A]

Brunson is a. It's unlikable to. Not like Jalen Brunson, like, totally. His story is so likable. This guy was a second round pick, like, in basketball, underdog story. He's really an underdog. As underdog as it gets in basketball. Specific, specifically, like, it just doesn't happen this way with a guy like him and Villanova, the college friends, you know, he recruited his college buddies to come on the team.

[B]

Oh, I didn't even know that.

[A]

Yeah, I mean, Hart and Mikhail Bridges, they're both Villanova guys. They won a championship at Villanova. You know, when I, when sports, you know, for me, the everyday, chubby, you know, guy, unathletic guy who doesn't play. You want to see yourself through the team.

[B]

Right. You were saying this last time.

[A]

Right. I talk about this. So I, I, I think this team is a really fun team to cheer for. And, and there are teams that are not fun to cheer for. There's teams that you, Ah, I can't believe this is the, you know, like I've had. There's, what do you think of a

[B]

grown man crying, though, about it?

[A]

I think it's okay. I think posting the video, like, it's kind of a, it's not where I would go with it. But I also haven't, you know, I'm kind of a, I went to college away. I went to Penn State. I'm from Boston, went to Penn State. So I've been gone since I've been 18. So I haven't had that hometown every day.

[B]

Right. If you never left the city you grew up in.

[A]

And then I moved to New York, which is a transplant town. So that's where I understand the cynicism because, you know, any party, any excuse, like Taylor Swift.

[B]

You're not even from here. Relax.

[A]

Well, to defend Taylor, I had that too. Taylor, her dancing in the front row. But then I was like, you know

[B]

what every, I'm saying, I go back and forth.

[A]

Well, let me, let me, let me kind of give feedback to the cynicism because I've had this conversation with myself. I was annoyed at Taylor Swift because I'm like, Mariska Hargitay goes to every game.

[B]

Like, there are people like Ben Stiller, Timothy Chalamet.

[A]

Chalamet has like, really like dove in, in a way.

[B]

You could tell this is like the only reason he really cares that he's famous.

[A]

It kind of feels that way.

[B]

So he could get this inside, right?

[A]

He, and he's, he made the rounds for one of his movies and he went on like College Game Day, the, the college football show. He, like, knew everything. He must have like a photogenic photographic memory.

[B]

Probably.

[A]

But I, I, to the Taylor one, I was like, oh, she's gonna sit in the front and dance around and we, and distract from the game. But I think if anybody who's moved to New York in the last, I mean, I've been here eight, I was here 18 years. We all have. You go to a Knicks game, right? You go to msg, you go and you leave msg whether, you know, a friend got tickets through work and you go, wow, that was like fun, like msg.

[B]

I haven't always thought that.

[A]

You haven't always thought that. I mean, when you leave.

[B]

I told you I went to game seven when they were in it like two years ago. And I was like, if I'm coming back, they better fucking win.

[A]

Well, I would say the argument I guess I'm making is you move to New York after college, you're in the city confines the boroughs, right?

[B]

It's so easy to go to a game.

[A]

So easy to go game. Like they're not traveling back to Long island afterwards after a game seven loss. I'm saying like when you moved in, like Taylor Swift, you know the song Moving to New York, welcome to New York, welcome to New York. Like that is the anthem of 22 year old woman who's like, I saw it on Sex in the City, I gotta move there. And then you have that moment where you go to a game, you're like, oh my God, I'm From, I'm from 10 Things I Hate about you. Like, you know, you had, you're. I'm living the movie life. So I do understand the connection people have to like MSG and, and plus the Knicks haven't been good, right?

[B]

So that part was exciting. Yeah.

[A]

So everyone has been given the cheap ticket, right?

[B]

You know, so they feel like part of it.

[A]

So like everyone has a memory. So now it kind of connects to like my, you know, the moving here. So like again, you can not be a Knicks fan. And it's an easy bandwagon to jump on because it does. In your personal life, if you've moved to New York in any capacity, does have a Knicks memory, right?

[B]

And I felt, you know, in some ways I felt like I wish that I could be someone who could, like really, who could like.

[A]

Right.

[B]

I wish I could be. I wish I could be someone who was like dancing in the street when something good. When anything good happened, when any, you know, I think maybe that's like my own to bring it back to me.

[A]

You didn't, you didn't have.

[B]

I know it's July 1st and this has been, you know, we're recording in advance. It's like the physical, the physical happiness, I think has always been very hard for me to express. Like, I wish I was someone who cried when my children were born or on my wedding day. I did not. I think I wish I was someone who could like, get really. Who could. Wasn't, like, fucking Larry David. Do you know what I mean? Where, like, nothing is so special. And I. Maybe that's what bothers me about it. I'm like, I wish I could, like, be like this. And therefore, I must hate on it.

[A]

And also you also, therefore you can't believe when someone does get this taken away.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You know, so it's hard to believe it. Yeah. And then you're seen as, like, a hater.

[B]

That's what I'm saying.

[A]

And you're like, I don't hate it.

[B]

It's tough out there.

[A]

Reasonable about it, you know, Like, I don't. No, it's. That's funny because I. I did have moments of, like, the Taylor Swift thing. I was, like, annoyed, and then I kind of walk back from it, and then I just. I don't know. It's very cool to see New York this way. And also, there's a little bit of, like.

[B]

I like, like, the interpersonal part of it. Like, everyone's in a good mood. I like that people are, like, smiling, they're happy. They're like. Again, for a city that sort of, like, prides itself on its, like, harsh, intense, like, nastiness, I think it's nice to have something to be happy about.

[A]

I mean, it's the. I mean, it's both the. You know, for the single people, you know, people always, you know, we get a lot of questions, like, what city, what city's the best? You know, what to date and be single in. It is both a. A reason to choose a big city, like New York City. Because you see, like, look at the hugeness of it all and how much people got involved. But it's also somewhat of a. A sales job for the local, you know, for a smaller city. But it is all. But all in all, if you're single, a city with a sports team, professional sports team, like, I think that's like, kind of the. Like, if you're looking to, like, have this vibe and like, you know, a lot of sports teams get. Because they get, like, public money to make their stadiums. This would be the marketing campaign for why public money is used towards the stadium. They would go look at the money it brought into the town.

[B]

Totally.

[A]

You know, like. But that's not every team. Like, that also means the team needs to be run responsibly and, like, with winning in mind, because winning brings in money. Like, I.

[B]

Right.

[A]

These things are all. I mean, now we're in 30. I'm in 30 different directions, but I'M saying, like, if you're looking for a city to move to, I would say sports team is, is kind of like an important single thing because it gives you like we talk about with college kids, like, why would you be on a dating app when you have so much in common already via your college? How do you turn your city into a college campus? Well, are there sports teams? Are there, are there reasons to go out?

[B]

Gave it a college feel, right? Yes. Which I, I am pro that.

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

It's a great weekend to be single in New York.

[A]

But I also think it's totally okay to be cynical and look at some of these people and go, like me, listen, there's a couple people that I was like, oh my God, I can't believe they posted this, you know, like right, Back it up, dude. But, but I, I, I, I, you know, I had a tweet where I was like, I made fun of, I got annoyed because I did a tweet where I made fun of like, I mean, we all know the person that move that was born in New York and says they are from the city. Yeah, but they're, they were just born in a hospital, like my city.

[B]

Like, like Lucy, my daughter. Your daughter born in Lauren at Lenox Hill.

[A]

Right. Lives on Long Island. If Lucy said, yeah, no, I'm from, I'm from the city.

[B]

Do you think, oh my God, I

[A]

mean, we've met those people.

[B]

No daughter of mine.

[A]

Right, Right. But we met and I said congratulations of the person that says they, you know, they're from the city, even though they were just born at a hospital, then moved to the suburbs five minutes later.

[B]

Right. Even if you spent your first year of life in this.

[A]

Right. You're not a city kid.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You know, V's a city kid and would hate that per. You met that person, right? V?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

I do not like them, but I understand. I mean, well now, but there's such people get so touchy because it's like, no, we all won. Like, I got so much like anger.

[B]

Right?

[A]

Cuz they're like, you're saying I can't be a fan. I'm like, well, that's not what I, I'm obviously talking about.

[B]

I mean, the Knicks are New York team. Right?

[A]

Of course. But I'm saying I'm making fun of the guy that goes to Long island and says I'm from the city.

[B]

And that's weird.

[A]

Right? We know that person. Like, but it, it is so funny how touchy around this stuff people get.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, it is, it's personal, you know, like, you know, my dad cheered for the Knicks, and I cheer for the Knicks. And it connects you to family, makes you call someone, you know, V's calling her dad for the bar. Like it's a.

[B]

That would be very exciting.

[A]

It's a beautiful thing.

[B]

Yeah, I didn't. I guess it's like all things sort of led me into this spot. Like, I'm. I don't come from a big sports fan. Like, I have brothers. They're into it. But it wasn't. We're never. We're not like Die Hard anything.

[A]

Right.

[B]

In fact, our mom's. Our. Our mom's signature phrases are. It's not so special. It's not so terrible.

[A]

Right, Right. Right.

[B]

Everything is fine.

[A]

I mean, my dad. I grew up. My dad knew every. Knows every player, every team, every game. Watches every Red Sox game. Now, like, I understand. And I fandom. And I listen to talk radio every day. So I love a storyline. I'm. I'm as up to it. I'm as up to date as a casual person could be. I wouldn't. But I'm not Die Hard about. Yeah, any team. But I mean, that's the thing that I wish I could lose myself in. I'm with you.

[B]

Where anything. I wish I could myself in anything.

[A]

I mean. So it's the beginning of summer. July 1st. This comes out.

[B]

It is.

[A]

Summer is in swing summer. I'm coming to stay with you.

[B]

I am very excited.

[A]

Is the house ready for me?

[B]

It is.

[A]

It's gonna be ready.

[B]

It's gonna be ready. It's already ready. The pool is ready.

[A]

It better be ready. I love a pool.

[B]

We've been swimming.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

It's working.

[A]

Okay. I love it.

[B]

Ron is ready for you.

[A]

Ron better be ready. I hope you're ready.

[B]

I hope you're ready to be jumped on.

[A]

Can't wait. Listen.

[B]

No. Talk about someone who lets himself go.

[A]

Oh, good, Ron. I've been practicing with Emily. She jumps on me every day. Great. And so we're ready.

[B]

You also lick your whole face.

[A]

I lick. She licks everywhere.

[B]

Amazing.

[A]

No, she's the Ron of the bedroom. So, I mean, what do we. We. We got summer dating. People are out there. July 4th. I mean, like, that's. I think it's the best.

[B]

I'm excited to have you for one of the best.

[A]

Best weekends of the year. I'm ready. And I got shows. I'm gonna be in West Hampton. There's, like, a few tickets left. I'm gonna be in. I'm Gonna be back in Long island at Huntington. And then I'm gonna be Miami, Red Bank, New Jersey, Foxwoods, Portland, Maine. If you're out there, I'm doing shows

[B]

and you're gonna, I mean this is now aired a while ago, but you're gonna be on watch what happens live tonight, right? Or not tonight.

[A]

You're taping it.

[B]

I don't know when it's airing.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

This is like the millennial girl's dream.

[A]

I can't believe it's happening.

[B]

This is like better than being a guest on like any of the late night shows. If you're talking to like my demo, I can't wait.

[A]

I, I, there's going to be a lot of like, you know, this is like the type of stuff and not to be again, to bring it back to cynicism. This is one of those moments where I find out who muted me on Instagram because someone will be like, what?

[B]

I'm like, yeah, I've been, People came out. I've been. We were on, I think when we, when a couple times.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And people did come out of the woodwork being like.

[A]

Right.

[B]

It's very legitimizing feeling.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I mean it's more legitimizing to be a guest. I've never gotten that far.

[A]

We pray one of the people who gets to speak. Yes, yes, of course I get to wave.

[B]

But the bartender thing is still like, it's just a cool. Like, I would, that's my Knicks. I would, I would have, I would. If someone was like, would you rather be a guest on Watcher Devin's Live or have courtside tickets to like the Knicks championship game? It would be. I would rather be against.

[A]

No, that I, I get it. This is, I watched an episode last night. It was like celebrity. It was Emily Blunt. So it wasn't like, I, I, I. It's funny how he's probably different with like an Emily Blunt versus like, you know, someone who he's watched get drunk on one of his shows. You know, different type of question and answer. But he gets, I'm excited.

[B]

Legit people. I mean, like. Oh yeah, yeah.

[A]

I mean especially like right now, like people are looking for ways to like put their self out there. Like if someone's zone, that audience is zoned in.

[B]

Oh yeah. I'm like paying attention.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because basically the whole show is like just people talking.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And all the games are made so that people will talk.

[A]

I love it. I'm excited. What are we talking about today? And, and listen, Join benefits Summer chat.

[B]

What A what? A great night for the summer challenge.

[A]

The.

[B]

The. You know.

[A]

Well, you know, I just did the book tour. Thank you to anyone who came out to the book tour we were talking about, like, you know, people are. The. The singles are a little unwell. They're. They're a little unwell. They're a little angry, They're a little upset. You know, the summer challenge, going on a walk with friends. I. I really can't stop talking about this idea. Like, I. I think, like, take one couple a week and go on a walk and enjoy yourself and have fun and. And let them know the real you and be seen. Someone got proposed to walk, I thought,

[B]

at your book tour. Interesting spot.

[A]

Yeah, it was weird. At the dating event, they're like, will you take me? No. Yeah, People are out there. Like, I. I think, like, the apps, you know, we. We're like, you know, what do they say? Like, with the Internet, it's like, phase two. Like, I feel like the apps were on, like, phase two of the app. So we've had. You had the opening. We got into the, like, we're on phase three.

[B]

Phase one, it's, like, a little embarrassing to meet someone on the apps. You remember when they came, right? It was like you kind of, like, had to pretend you met, like, in person or something. Phase two, it's like, all right, we're all doing this. We're in and, like, we're here and we're proud.

[A]

Right?

[B]

Phase. What's phase three?

[A]

Anger. We are angry at the apps. We're angry that we've seen these games before.

[B]

Tired of it.

[A]

We're tired of the stuff.

[B]

We're.

[A]

We're seeing repeats, I think. And I think we're seeing repeats of people. I think we're seeing repeats of maneuvers. The not making a date. You're like. At first, you were like, well, I guess they did. I guess they don't know how to ask me on the date. Now you're like, I guess they don't want to ask me on a date. You know, And I can feel the. And I. I think sometimes it's just to delete the apps and let's take a break. And. And then you go, well, I'm not even trying. Well, it's like, well, no, no, no, no, no, no. There was a tie. You know, there. There's another piece of this dating piece of. Call up a friend and go for a coffee walk. Just do it.

[B]

Yeah. There's a lot of burnout.

[A]

A lot of burnout.

[B]

The.

[A]

The events were both single people and people in relationships. And it was nice to feel like everyone there was on the same page. I feel like, and I told you this before, I think this show is doing the right thing. I think we're doing, you know, weirdly enough, we didn't. We're not trying to be heroes here, but we're doing it the right way. Like, I, I just, the type of conversations we were having about dating and calming people down a little bit and having fun with the subject, I think that's the only way to go. I think like telling people rules that they have to go by. There's people doing that and you're like, no, you're all, I mean, you can

[B]

have your own guidelines. Your own. Because of your, you. Because. Right. Because you know yourself.

[A]

Right. Some. Some is going to tell you to their rules.

[B]

Right.

[A]

When someone tells you their rules, those feel like judgments.

[B]

Yeah. And because, because it worked for them.

[A]

Right. Or it didn't.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Make money off you.

[B]

Yeah. I agree.

[A]

For me, summertime is about two things. Spending time with the people I love and taking memorable trips that I can reminisce about all fall and winter long.

[B]

Luckily, the Ford Explorer is here to

[A]

help me do both this summer. The Explorer's six standard drive modes give me the confidence to get out there and hit the open road. And with spacious third row seating, there's enough room for the entire group chat to come along.

[B]

Adventure.

[A]

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[B]

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[A]

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[B]

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[A]

Plus buy online and pick up at your favorite rack store for free. Great brands, great prices.

[B]

That's why you rack. I will read our first email.

[A]

Let's do the email.

[B]

Let's do it. Hi jj, Longtime listener here from the Bay Area.

[A]

Love it.

[B]

Odds are good. Goods are odd.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

I just moved in with my boyfriend of almost four years and it's going to great. We'll see about that.

[A]

So great that I'm writing to you.

[B]

Yes. One thing that I've learned which was somewhat unexpected is that he likes to be naked. Basically 24 7, like genuinely sun up to sundown. I'm in therapist grad school. Is that what they call it?

[A]

That does sound like what I would call.

[B]

That's the clinical term, right?

[A]

That's like, what, the boyfriend at home who's naked? You go to therapist grad school today? Yeah. Also, when do you get to naked boyfriend?

[B]

Which lesson is that? Okay, so I'm in therapist grad school and work at a restaurant, so I'm out of the house most days. But he works in tech from home. He likes the naked life so much that he sometimes takes work meetings wearing just a shirt and no bottoms, Winnie the Pooh style, with the camera just chest up so nobody can tell he's not wearing pants.

[A]

How do you feel about that? That is one of those things. Do you remember that guy, Jeffrey Toobin, who was, like, masturbating on a zoom, like, during the pandemic? I don't know if it was by accident or.

[B]

I remember those kinds of stories.

[A]

Isn't that. That guy? Wasn't he caught? Like, he, like, he was like this, like, political guy that suddenly he's masturbating on a zoom and then he disappeared off the face of the earth. I remember that story just because I was like, he's waiting to come back

[B]

for everyone to forget, but.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Sorry.

[A]

No, no, I, I, but that, like, ruined me for zoom because I. This camera on, is it off? And I'm not even masturbating. I was just like, like, walking around my house. Like, like, like I'd be like, later in the day, naked in my home.

[B]

Yeah, no, I see me from upstairs. People would get, like, the camera covers just in case there was, like, something. I don't know. Yeah, I will. I, I mean, as a. I will confess that I do occasionally wear my pajama pants on a, On a zoom or a recording. I'm not always. I change the shirt. Sometimes I don't change the pants until, like.

[A]

Yeah, but if you work appropriate, you see your pajama pants, we go, oh, my God, you got kittens.

[B]

Right?

[A]

Pajama pants.

[B]

No pants is crazy. Crazy.

[A]

You're playing with fire.

[B]

Yeah. Especially if you get up and close the door. You have to get up for some reason.

[A]

Don't you have anxiety at all? Like, Like, I would be so anxious about it. I would be so anxious that if I wore no pants on a zoom, I would just assume the zoom could see that I was wearing no pants. Like, I.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Even without the camera being on me. I don't, I don't.

[B]

He's doing no pants, no underwear.

[A]

I guess, I guess not. This guy's a naked dude.

[B]

That's crazy. No pants, no underwear.

[A]

And like, what if penis is just

[B]

like, out on your seat?

[A]

I, I, yeah, penis out on the seat is fine. I guess I, I kind of have the universe. Like, I'll sit in a shower sometimes when there's like a seat in the shower.

[B]

Mike's, Mike's a big guys love sitting in the shower.

[A]

Oh, it feels like the only place where you can be alone, right? If I can sit in the shower, I'll sit. And then you have this moment where you're like, my balls are on the seat. Is this not hygienic?

[B]

Right?

[A]

And then you're like, well, my elbow touches the chair. What's the difference between my balls and my elbow? That's like the math I start doing every time. I'm like, why am I so precious with my balls?

[B]

I've had that same thought when I like, sit on the seat, right? Yeah.

[A]

And then you go, oh, I think it's, I don't care about my, my any other part of my body.

[B]

Well, do you clean the shower on occasion?

[A]

I'm hoping. Well, I'm on hotels is usually where this happens.

[B]

Then, yeah, I think that's fine.

[A]

I mean, who knows? I'm gonna be okay.

[B]

I think about that when I take a bath. I'm like, is this weird, right?

[A]

The bath thing? I don't take as many baths, but when I do, I kind of like, I'm gonna take a shower after anyway.

[B]

I take a shower after and I

[A]

guess I'm showering after I sit in the chair in the shower.

[B]

But that's also true, right? You're about to take a shower.

[A]

Yeah, I don't know, it's funny, I. Every time my balls touch something, I do have the math of like, I don't care about other parts of my body.

[B]

It's not to me about it touching it. Ye me. It's not like, oh, no, don't get your penis on the, on the chair. It's more just like, don't get your penis.

[A]

Get your penis off the chair.

[B]

Get your balls off the chair.

[A]

No, but there's, stop touching the chair with your penis. We got guests coming over.

[B]

Yeah, no, to me it's more like, it could just be so easy for someone to, for you to accidentally, like, make the wrong move and someone on the zoom could see your penis that,

[A]

well, this is, I mean, and then

[B]

you're like, life is over.

[A]

That is, you know what I mean?

[B]

Like, to me, like, the benefit, the cost benefit analysis here is like, okay, you like it, but like, if someone's from work saw your penis, you're done.

[A]

Yeah, well, even agreed. And here's where my brain, my brain goes, oh, I'm in casual conversation with someone at work and they're like, how about that zoom the other day? And you're like, oh, it was so horrible. Everyone kept talking and talking, and I'm sitting there pantless, and you know, I just want to go put on my pants. And someone's like, what? And you're like, oh, I don't wear pants during the zoom. And then that person feels uncomfortable, goes to HR and is like, hey, I had a weird conversation with Frank, right? You know, he's naked during these zoom meetings. And they're like, what? And then they go to Frank and they're like, we heard a rumor.

[B]

I like that his name is Frank. Very on the nose.

[A]

Frank, we heard a rumor that you Franken beans are just sprawled out.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And he's like, oh, I, I, you know. And now he. And then they're like, well, we gotta have. Now you're in training. Now you're in.

[B]

That's what I'm saying. The wrist.

[A]

Slippery slope.

[B]

The risk situation here is crazy.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So anyway, so this guy takes work meetings with just a shirt, no bottoms, with the camera, just chest up so nobody can tell he's not wearing pants.

[A]

I wish I had. This guy's level of no anxiety is

[B]

really not giving a.

[A]

Like, like to me, this is like he doesn't do rabbit hole.

[B]

I don't think. I don't wish I had that. You need, you need some level of anxiety to be a functioning human in

[A]

this world for us to function alongside you. Yes, right. He can function alongside us.

[B]

Right. But like, I wouldn't want to be that clueless as Right. The my surroundings. I obviously knew he liked being naked a lot before I moved in, but did not know this to this extent since I wasn't there 24 7. One thing of note is that this is also the first time he's ever had a roommate. I've lived in communal housing with roommates for at least a decade, so I think that might be part of this. I want him to wear pants because one, I don't want your balls dragging over all our furniture, and two, seeing your flaccid dick 247 does not promote eroticism in the relationship, in my view. So, yeah, he is wearing no underwear on these zoom meetings.

[A]

Yeah, the flaccid penis. Not a Great look. Even my own.

[B]

I mean, again, it's fine if you. It's not like you. No one can ever see the penis flaccid. But I don't think it should be, like, just.

[A]

No. Sometimes a flaccid penis looks like it just woke up from a nap.

[B]

Like, it's, like, sad.

[A]

It's sad. It's a mess. It's. Where am I?

[B]

We've talked. We've talked about it. And he's somewhat resistant to pants wearing. So I said, I just want him to wear pants at least 50 of the time, lol. He's definitely wearing pants more now. But am I being unreasonable to ask for such garments to be worn? Am I, as he jokingly said, imposing colonialist modesty standards on him? Thanks for the laughs. Close clothed girlfriend of naked boyfriend.

[A]

What a fun joke. Posing. And I know he's joking, but, like, that joke, I'd be like, we're, like, one step away from honesty there. Like, impose colonial.

[B]

You think she's such a prude, right?

[A]

The minute you get into colonial, that becomes, like, a morality.

[B]

I hate when someone makes it. Makes it seem like she's, like, the crazy. Crazy, like, square.

[A]

I guess you're gonna do that whole clothes thing like those big Republicans in the south have to do. Yeah. What you're doing.

[B]

What if they get married and have kids? Kids not gonna walk around with. I mean, I guess some people are family. Some people are in a naked house.

[A]

I mean, my dad walked around naked a lot. My mom also.

[B]

He has sons, Right. I think if he had, like, two teenage daughters, that would be weird.

[A]

Did anyone walk around your house naked?

[B]

We weren't really a naked house, I

[A]

would think with that many kids. And also the genders.

[B]

No.

[A]

Yeah. I think the genders matter here, Right?

[B]

I think the genders matter. I think it's weird for. I don't know, my. Maybe I'm the prude, but I think it'd be weird for a man to walk around his house naked with, like, daughters.

[A]

I think I would. I think that's, like, a little uncomfortable with that.

[B]

Maybe I'm crazy. I don't know.

[A]

V, did your dad ever walk around naked? No.

[B]

No.

[A]

Yeah, my dad would, but it was all boys. It, like, you know, when you have all boys, I think it turns into, like, a locker room.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And my mom is like, well, did

[B]

your mom walk around? No, but I'm saying, like, would that not have been weirder?

[A]

That would have been totally weird, right? Yeah. So. Yes. Let me just say that would have Been.

[B]

I'm saying that's like the equivalent of if I think in that way.

[A]

I, I.

[B]

Except she accidentally send you a new order.

[A]

Yes, that. We talked about that here. The accidental nude she sent me. Did I talk about that on benefits?

[B]

I don't remember, but that was a good.

[A]

I tried doing it on stage, and it got so weird.

[B]

But she writes, don't look at that.

[A]

She goes, don't look at that. Take it down. And then I go. And then literally, I, like, I go to, like, a text she sent me, and she meant that she's put it. I can't remember completely, but it was like she posted something on Facebook.

[B]

No.

[A]

She texted me a picture that she thought she put on Facebook, and it was her reflection, and she was basically naked. And I'm like, don't look at that. And I'm, like, zooming in, and I'm like, like. And it's like, I. I tried to do it on stage. It's like, this is, like, why being a millennial sucks. It's like we're constantly in the middle of, like, the analog to. There's no other generation that's gonna have to train. Right. That, like, could run into this mistake.

[B]

Are you. If you're in a locker room. Yeah. Are you naked?

[A]

Yeah, I'm a naked. Locker room.

[B]

Naked in the locker room.

[A]

Yeah. I'm. I'm okay with being naked. I'm okay with that. Okay. As insecure as I am about my body in. In one way or another, I'm not insecure about the nakedness thing. You know, I go into a group shower. That's fine. I really don't care.

[B]

That's fine.

[A]

For this woman that's writing in, I don't think she's being unreasonable at all. Like, I agree.

[B]

This guy's got a roommate now.

[A]

Yeah, you got a roommate. And they want to feel comfortable. Also, I. I love the angle of, like, I. I don't think rubbing your balls everywhere is a good angle to go with.

[B]

I agree. I think there's arguments to be made. That's just like any other body part.

[A]

Totally.

[B]

Although that is very. In Sex in the City, there's an episode where Charlotte and Harry move in together, and his. She doesn't want his balls on all of the furniture.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And so she asks him to put on pants.

[A]

Right. The ball, but the balls on the furniture, that doesn't matter. It doesn't. Like, I would be able to go, you're being crazy.

[B]

Yeah. I think it makes it a little less, like, special sexually Totally. If someone is naked all the time, Right. Personally, maybe that's just. Again, I think this guy's got to

[A]

find some, like, home pants that he, like. Listen, I wear mesh shorts. When I go to bed, I wear mesh shorts. I forget where they were from, but I. I got, like, three pairs of them. I wear them to bed with no underwear. Like, they're my comfortable bed shorts.

[B]

Right?

[A]

That I. I can't, like, sometimes I can't sleep naked. I don't. I don't like the feeling of.

[B]

I don't like sleeping naked.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I don't like.

[B]

I like to be like, you know,

[A]

I, like, know where everything is cinched up. Right. Like, with women with boobs, sometimes they're like, I woke up my boobs on my shoulder.

[B]

I want to know where everyone is.

[A]

Right? Where my should be, you know, like, and. And the shorts kind of help that.

[B]

I agree.

[A]

I've been with women where I've slept with them, and they're like, shorts on, but I'm naked, and they take it, like, personally. Right? And that gets annoying.

[B]

I think they could put on something

[A]

if they want, or you can be naked and I could be in these shorts.

[B]

I'm saying if they want. If they want to. Yeah.

[A]

Right. But for this, I don't think she's being unreasonable. I think it's a little bit like, I would.

[B]

I would go the sex angle. I think that helps.

[A]

Yeah. The, the. Hey, it's just I'm a little turned off. I, I. Looking at your penis all day long.

[B]

It makes me not as excited to see your penis when I, when I need to use it.

[A]

Right. Right when I'm looking to get. Get some pee. I, I think also, like, I think if he's.

[B]

When she's. She said she's at school and she works. If you want to be naked when I'm not home.

[A]

Right.

[B]

That's fine. When I'm home, put on some pants. Right?

[A]

Let's. And maybe don't do that at work

[B]

just for your future, for your career,

[A]

I think, for her also, let's shop for some pants that are, like, loose and make you feel naked. Ish. You know, maybe he has some sort of baggy, you know, balloon pants, you know, like, you know, they have, like, windbreaker pants.

[B]

There's got to be, like, a mesh pant.

[A]

Mesh shorts are good.

[B]

Me undies, great. Great brand for that.

[A]

You're picky.

[B]

All right.

[A]

J. And J. Love the pod. Thanks for all you do. I'm writing with an icky or picky About a week ago, I, 29 female, match with a guy unhinged, 29 male. We moved to text. He made two date plans and canceled both. One for quote, tummy trouble and one because he wanted OT at work. I would say if I received a text that says, I have tummy trouble,

[B]

I'm out.

[A]

I think I'm out.

[B]

I agree.

[A]

Sorry, tummy trouble. I gotta cancel tonight.

[B]

All you have to say is, I'm not feeling great.

[A]

Right.

[B]

You don't have to describe the element.

[A]

Right.

[B]

You don't have to get into details.

[A]

You know, you owe each other nothing.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

On top of these failed plans, I picked up on a few potential X and I'm curious as icky or picky? 1. He asked for my Instagram and sent me a Snapchat request. Aren't we too old for Snap? Do we want to go one by one?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Okay. What do you think of he asked for my Instagram before meeting and then

[B]

icky, icky, icky, Snapchat. How old are we? Well, he's 29.

[A]

My feedback. To all the women who ever say, how old are we? You have missed the point.

[B]

I don't know, I think that, like, that's what I'm saying. I think it means you're just trying to hook up. But if you're like, in college and you did that and I was also looking for that, it would be fine.

[A]

But I'm saying that doesn't even help your issue. Okay, like, like, how old are we? Every time I hear how old are we? I'm like, doesn't matter. Who gives a, like, twin size bed.

[B]

How old are we now?

[A]

Well, yeah, that's one of those. But I'm saying for like, Snapchat. How old are we? You're missing why he's doing this.

[B]

Right?

[A]

Like, like your energy is being misplaced. Like, men are gonna do childish things at all ages. Like, I hate. It's my least. It's, it's, it's my, like, it's the part of this podcast that surprises me the most, is that women are like, oh, my God, he's 50. Can you believe he's still doing this? Yes, I can believe any age is doing all of these things to have sex with you. So I think it's like, actually, like, you're like, I'm like, you're smarter than this.

[B]

I think it's more like I thought by this time men wouldn't be doing this.

[A]

No, no, I, well then stop thinking that. You know, like, I, I, I, I get like, I I, Because I'm like, you know, anytime the age comes into play. 35 and still looking to hook up. Yes. Like, I, I, I, I think you're being. The boxes that you put yourself in are not the boxes these men put themselves in.

[B]

Maybe they should put themselves in more boxes.

[A]

We're not gonna fix that.

[B]

Put yourself in more boxes.

[A]

Well, not gonna happen. Sorry. It's raining out. Here's your umbrella. You know, like, I, I just think, like, the Snapchat at our age. Stop being so stupid. Is like my, like, my feedback. Like, okay, you know, better you. Oh, what do you want? Can you believe at 29, he's still trying to send me messages over an app that deletes them after we're done texting? And, and, and it might be an easier way to say some weird shit that could get his. Get himself blown. I'm not surprised. So I. 2. He asked if I own my home. When did this become socially acceptable? This I can admit is probably picky. Like, but, like, do you want my whole financial portfolio while we're at it?

[B]

This is picky. I think that could come up naturally.

[A]

It could come up.

[B]

Do you rent your own? I don't think that's like a crazy, invasive question.

[A]

We don't know how it came up.

[B]

Right.

[A]

But it could come up. Yeah. I'm with you.

[B]

I wouldn't be offended if someone asked me that.

[A]

Hey, do you own yours place? That's pretty. It could come up. It could also be weird that it came up, right?

[B]

It depends. But it's come completely. Could come up naturally.

[A]

Totally. 3. I found less than flattering posts on social media. This is what really tipped to icky for me. See? Attached.

[B]

Okay, so the, the, he reposted something on Facebook. I didn't even know how you repost on Facebook.

[A]

I guess you can share.

[B]

Share something. Yeah. And it says, just a matter of time. And then it's a meme that says feminists. When World War III draft starts and it's a woman cooking in the kitchen,

[A]

basically, that all these women will want to be living in the 90s.

[B]

It won't be as right, won't be as feminine. Into being equals. When there's a draft.

[A]

When there's a draft evidence. 2. Comment on an IG post about a man texting a woman after a first date, saying, I didn't like that men were looking at approaching you. You should dress differently, wear less makeup. And then he wrote, nothing wrong with having some self respect. If guys were coming up hitting on you. I'd be pissed too. Okay.

[B]

Yikes. That would be enough for me to cancel the date. Both of these?

[A]

I guess. I think both of these would be enough. Yeah, that's.

[B]

That's icky.

[A]

I mean, what's the second one? A comment on an IG post. A man texting a woman after a first date saying, I didn't like that you were looking at men were looking

[B]

at and approaching you. You should dress differently and wear less makeup.

[A]

If I. If guys. And then he's agreeing with that.

[B]

Yeah. Basically saying, nothing wrong with having self respect. If guys are coming up hitting on you, I'd be pissed too.

[A]

Yeah, that's.

[B]

This guy stinks.

[A]

Yeah, no, no good.

[B]

So, yeah, that. I think that one is the. The worst offense. Of course.

[A]

Right.

[B]

The Instagram, Snapchat, I think icky. And the house. The house thing. Do you own your house? Fine.

[A]

I. I find more.

[B]

She says when he tried. When we tried to schedule the third date, I politely declined, which. Which he was not impressed with. Also attached. Love your take. Being icky or picky. And I made the right caller. Am I being picky? I think she knows that this is icky.

[A]

Right? I mean, we'll read the text. These are the final texts. And then it sounds like she informed him that she saw these things on social media, right?

[B]

Did she say that?

[A]

Well, because he's like, any interest in seeing me or are you done with me now? Laughing face emoji. So if this is the case, the way I read it was he was like. Like. She basically was like, is this you? Is this how you feel? And then he was like, any interest in seeing me or are you done with me now? Laughing face emoji.

[B]

Haha. Not done with you as a person, but I don't think I'm feeling enough of a connection to keep pursuing things that sounds like guest on with yo. Right? Thanks for the chats though and hope everything goes well.

[A]

Well, to be fair, we haven't really had an opportunity to form a connection. Lol. Your communication is slow as, so it's hard to get to know one another over text. And then life just happened outside of that for dates.

[B]

Fair enough. Sounds like it's not really working on your side either, so probably the right call for both of us.

[A]

So in your mind the answer is give up, not communicate more slash better. Laughing face emoji. This is brutal.

[B]

This guy sucks.

[A]

I. We only get to deal with one side of this.

[B]

I mean, come on.

[A]

No, no, no, no, no. I. There's no.

[B]

This is disrespectful to someone and trying to end things with you nicely.

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Totally on her side for that. I think, I think the fact that we got to that point, like the fact that she's asking, is this icky or picky after all of this?

[B]

Of course it's icky.

[A]

Of course it's icky. He's being an ick. You're okay. Let me make sure I say, yeah, but if this show was this guy can go himself, we wouldn't have much to talk about on this show. So, like, I, I, like I can stop and go, he sucks and we can move on. I would say if there's, but we can't speak. Like, if he wrote into us and send this, we could have a long conversation about how much he sucks.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You know what I mean? Like, I, I think when I see this email, Vicki or picky, it, like, it's totally, I, I, I can't see a reason. Let me speak for myself. There's never been a reason I needed an Instagram to go forward on a first date.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Anyone who defends sharing social media before a first date I think is fraudulent. I think they're a bad actor argument. That's my opinion. I, I anytime the feedback is like, well, I want to make sure they're the person they are, then you should not. Then you're not excited enough to go on the date.

[B]

Right.

[A]

These apps were made to fe you. I wouldn't go on a date with someone from an app. And I'm saying this after the fact because I've done it. I wouldn't go on a date with someone I wasn't excited to go out on a date with. It should be special to go on a date with you. And this whole icky or picky, like, we are so far down the line of where she could be turned off. Like, like she's questioning herself so much. It's okay. And I, I something that came out of the book tour we were talking a lot about, like, going on dates with people you weren't excited about. So many people related to that because we don't have the confidence to just go, eh, I'm not in.

[B]

Well, there's always, I think, a thought in the back of your mind of like, well, what if?

[A]

Right.

[B]

It could be right. And I think that's how strong the drive to connect is.

[A]

Right. I, I get it. And I, I guess where you're like, it's like a casino. It's the same again. They say these apps are like slot machines.

[B]

Right?

[A]

It's the same feeling you have in a casino. Well, if I play one more hand and I get to, you know, I make a comeback here, it's like, oh, I'll make back my money. It's a casino. There's a name for this. There's. There's an actual name. Loss. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's. It's a. There's an economic principle here, but, like, sunk cost. Sunk cost, cost theory, fallacy, whatever. But I. I think that's where we're at with a lot of these dates, and that's why there's so much fatigue.

[B]

Right? And I mean, the truth is, you. You need something in the middle. You can't be so cynical that any little thing that someone asks you if you rent or. Or you own.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Makes you cancel the date. But also, like, you don't have to be so naive that, like, to think that, like, someone who's displaying these strong signs of not being the person for you, you don't need to, like, ignore that.

[A]

Right. I. I think it's hard. It's like a very hard. I think the moment you're Googling them to see their social media activity, you don't really want to go on that date. You're trying to convince yourself into it.

[B]

Right?

[A]

Like you were hoping or trying to find something to convince yourself out of it, which she found. But, like, I. I think, like, it's like, it's like, hey, anytime I do a bad thing, it's because I drank alcohol. Like, we can work it back.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So, like, the first drink probably isn't for you. The first cancellation, they're probably not for you. Like, I. And I know, again, like, we're chasing after connection and did a tummy.

[B]

Tummy troubles.

[A]

Right? And it's easy for us looking back at all of this, but, like, and then you get to the end and it's like this text conversation is just a disaster. I feel for this person, but I think it's like, this is kind of like the.

[B]

I mean, they've been showing her the side. I actually don't feel for this person. They didn't even go out, did they?

[A]

The girl? No, they didn't even go out. But, I mean, I feel for them to have to see that these people are out there.

[B]

Right? No, I think it's good because this is like, do you know what I mean? Some. It's tough because, like, again, what we like to do on this show is make people a better consumer of, like, other people that they're meeting and to Take to read these signs. And this is like, to me, if we're. If we were teaching a class, this would be like, like inch 101, right? Asks for your Instagram. Instagram or Snapchat. Okay. Like, now I know what to do. If we were teaching a class, it would be like, okay, this is a sign of just looking to hook up.

[A]

Right. And the p. And the. The problem with dating and social media and like the. Now with so many dating accounts, there's this, like, you never know. Well, my boyfriend asked for my Instagram and I'm like, chances are slim. Like, I. I just. I'm telling you, for me, I've never needed that, like, to go on again, a first date. I agree these things can happen later. But, like, trust your instinct. Here uup betches.com if you have an email for the show. Uup betches.com we love these emails. I love the screenshots. We love seeing the. As you said, the raw data.

[B]

Yeah. You know, love it.

[A]

Let's do another one.

[B]

Okay. J. Hi, James. I need your advice. I'm a 510 and 165 pounds for reference.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

I've been happily married for four years and have been with my now wife for 11 years. Recently, I got a message out of the blue from my college ex that I haven't spoken to in over 12 years. She said that she was doing some introspection and wanted to apologize for how she handled the breakup. While neither of us handled the breakup great, we were also 22 years old and the relationship has run. Had run its course. I told my wife about it and she asked what I was going to do.

[A]

So what are you gonna do with that? It feels like a big test.

[B]

Yeah, that does feel like a test. I feel like my ex was reaching out more for her. How do I respond to the message? Not to open the door to a conversation, but also acknowledge that I appreciate the apology, even though it doesn't really feel like it was necessary or needed. Sincerely, happily married male. Fetch.

[A]

How do you feel about this? I think this is a great one for anyone listening with their partner right now.

[B]

Yeah. How. What would you. What would be acceptable here?

[A]

Right. Because I. I read this one to Emily.

[B]

What was her take?

[A]

She goes, I think he can just not answer.

[B]

Interesting.

[A]

And I was like, okay. And then I was like, would you be.

[B]

You would suggest he not answer?

[A]

That's what she would suggest.

[B]

Okay. She would suggest. I'm saying she would.

[A]

I'm trying to think of, like, what I would do.

[B]

I Would answer.

[A]

I would answer.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I said to Emily, and I'll say this to you, I. I kind of had this feeling of like, if I was happy, I'd let them know exactly what this text meant to me.

[B]

What would you say?

[A]

Well, if it was someone that handled a breakup badly and I had thought about it 12 years ago, I would go, hey, it did kind of cross my mind every now and again that that breakup went in a direction I didn't see coming. And I really appreciate the apology because I've beaten myself up a little bit about it, and I've kind of had a little bit of anger towards you, but now this really, like, makes me feel better. Like, I would give that.

[B]

Or.

[A]

I gotta be honest with you, I haven't thought about that at all. And I just want to let you know that was never something I held against you. And you're letting them off the hook. And. And I wish you the best. Hope all.

[B]

Hope all is hope.

[A]

All is hope all is the period.

[B]

Never receive a hope all. As well. When reaching out to an ex. That means cordial, not interested in talking, in continuing the conversation.

[A]

Right.

[B]

I. I agree with ending with the whole ball as well. I agree with your. If you were bothered by the breakup text, the only edit I would have is for the one where you don't care. And I think to say, like, I haven't thought. It's nothing worse to me than getting. And I haven't thought about it at all because to me, that makes me feel pathetic for thinking. For still thinking about it, like, oh, this person doesn't give a. And like, she said, it's more for her than for him.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I would just leave that out here just because it makes her feel like a loser. Like, if I ever. If I took a chance and reached out to someone and they were like, don't even remember that or something, I think I would feel. I would feel almost worse.

[A]

I wouldn't even mean it that way. I mean. Right? That's interesting.

[B]

And he says that, like, I don't feel like it was necessary or needed. Someone's like, this was unnecessary and unneeded. I'm like, ugh, now I'm like, now I have to think about the fact that I sent this to you for the next 12 years.

[A]

My thing would be that I'm sorry you felt this has been on your mind.

[B]

Don't say that either.

[A]

Well, I. I would be like, I'm sorry you feel that way because. But it really wouldn't be meant to make them Feel bad.

[B]

Right? I know. But to me, there's nothing worse than someone not even caring.

[A]

Right. Well, like, she was like, she's been

[B]

thinking about this for 12 years, and you're like, what happened?

[A]

Well, then I. Then I thought maybe they're an aa.

[B]

That was thinking that too. You know, I think that's one thing, too, is, like, to open the flirty door. Which is why I think Emily was probably like. Like, don't even answer.

[A]

Right.

[B]

I think a nice message. If it was me, I would send back a. A Something similar to your first or second or a combination of, like. Really appreciate that. I hope you're doing well.

[A]

Hope all is well.

[B]

Hope all is well again.

[A]

Because it is for as they wrote for them, not for him.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then they could just. Basically, all he. All she's looking for is for them to tell her that they don't hate her.

[A]

Right. Right. That's fair.

[B]

Unless she's secretly trying to get back.

[A]

Which.

[B]

Option two. But, like, if he's. That doesn't matter what she's.

[A]

Right. Which would take, like, I think also from his perspective, like, that would take 17 more texts at that. At a certain point, it's your fault.

[B]

Right. You know, like, all you have to do is the all as well. And then you don't have to answer anything after that.

[A]

Right. Yeah. I'm with you. I. It is funny. I went on Taylor Strecker's podcast. You know, we're talking about dating because we're talking about the book, and she was bringing up, like. Like, men from college that she dated.

[B]

I would do that.

[A]

Right. And I. And I was like, this is so beyond, like, the scope of, like, what I'm looking back at.

[B]

That's. That's more painful than you hating someone from college. I think actually, like, the idea that someone that I felt strongly about in college just, like, does not even, like, get. Remember 41 or give a. I don't know. It's still like, we have.

[A]

Maybe my memory of it would be like, maybe we're happy I had the experience. I'm. I hope we are both the people we are.

[B]

The day that you ended it with me. I want you to think about me all the time.

[A]

This is the scariest part about staying single.

[B]

No, we never forget. No, I think that to me, like, the saddest part of like. And again, I think I've said this about situationships in general. Like, the most hurtful part of a situation is that you care deeply about someone and they don't really give a Right. It's like worse than them hating you. You know, that's why a situationship breakup is harder than a, a real breakup. At least in a real breakup it's two people who liked each other.

[A]

Right? I, I, I can't believe in the situationship scenario, the person doesn't have a moment where they go, maybe I didn't care about them as much as I thought I did.

[B]

I'm sure you did, but it's more like, you know, like they always say the saying, like you never forget how someone makes you feel.

[A]

Right? Right. You weren't getting it back.

[B]

Right? This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Listening to this podcast instead of doom scrolling smart move. Another smart move getting help from one of State Farm's 19,000 local agents when you choose to bundle home and auto bundling. Just another way to save with the personal price plan. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts and savings and eligibility vary by state. This episode is brought to you by Starbucks.

[A]

That is fire. Whoa, that's good. This might be the drink of the summer. Okay, I like this one too. I'm rocking with it.

[B]

Okay, try it for yourself. Starbucks refreshers concentrates are coming home. Find them in the coffee aisle and make it yours.

[A]

Let's play some games.

[B]

Let's do it.

[A]

UUPetches.com Red Flag or deal breaker. We know the game.

[B]

You.

[A]

It's sweeping the country. You're dating someone. One thing happens. You have to decide whether it is a red flag, you keep dating them, or it's a deal breaker. You end at sight unseen on scene. Unseen. We met the unseen woman.

[B]

You did.

[A]

She was at the DC show.

[B]

Oh, wow.

[A]

What a wonderful.

[B]

Met her sight on scene.

[A]

I met. Right. That's right. I. She was wonderful. She was as pleasant as she was in her email. She was surprised that we did the email. Well, that, that I wasn't like offended. I was like, no, you wrote it in such a nice way.

[B]

Right.

[A]

It was like a perfect. Because at that show, a woman yelled out. We. We did a dating app makeover and a woman. We have it on video. You can go to my YouTube and check it out. You can see this woman sent in her profile and we put it up on the big screen and this woman in the crowd yelled out, you spelled university wrong.

[B]

Oh, wow.

[A]

And I was like, we made fun of the university woman. We made fun of the woman who. I made fun of all the women. No, this makes me sound horrible.

[B]

Come to a show.

[A]

Yeah, no, I. I made fun of them both. Like, her. Like, you're yelling out, who gives a. No. Guy is like, well, she spelled university wrong. I guess I can't her. You know, like. And then I was, like, making fun of her like, she went to some school. I was like, not a good ad for her college. But it was funny because at that show, then the. The actual grammarian, the woman who works in grammar studies, who sent that in, it came up, and she was so nice and wonderful. It. So it was great to meet her. All right, ready?

[B]

I'm ready.

[A]

J. And J, thanks for all the giggles during my commute and neighborhood walks. I'm a subscriber. Look forward to your episodes. Every week I have a funny date story from a few years ago that feels perfect for the pod. I was hanging out with my friend and her new boyfriend, and I mentioned I was open to being this is it summer challenge. And I mentioned I was open to being set up. There it is. The boyfriend said he had an acquaintance who was looking to date. Seriously? He gave my number to this guy. Let's call him Mark. After some texting, we set up a date. I arrived a little early, and Mark called to let me know he was running late. This was the first time we'd actually spoken on the phone, and he dropped a few casual curse words, which threw me off.

[B]

However, how you even do that in a conversation about running late.

[A]

Ring, ring.

[B]

Hello?

[A]

Hey, Jordana. Ah, God, this traffic is crazy. I. I'm running a little late. I'm sorry. I'm such a idiot. I'll be there in a little bit. You know, I just. Sometimes this stupid watch I have is a little bit slow.

[B]

And he's a contractor, so you gotta get a contractor accent.

[A]

Just tons of. Hey, Jordana, I'm running a little late. I got this job. I gotta deal with a. This gets crazy. You get it and you get it.

[B]

All right. Gonna get faced though.

[A]

We're gonna. We'll throw one on. God damn it. I kept trying to think of other swear words I only know, and.

[B]

Yeah, I don't know anyone else, so.

[A]

All right. Ready?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

However, he's a contractor who works around guys all day, so I shrugged it off and assumed he was just out of practice with dating. Then the actual date happened. Oh. Within the span of two drinks, Mark casually dropped the following phrases. You ready?

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Trigger warning.

[B]

Trigger warning.

[A]

My clients are getting by insurance companies.

[B]

2.

[A]

I'm a total for good reviews. Okay, how do you rate those two on the the second on the first date, horrified scale.

[B]

Second one, I don't know.

[A]

Second one is not. I, I think it's fine. That's kind of like a saying too, right? Not that I'm like going around saying I'm a.

[B]

Right. But yeah, the first one, not great. But I wouldn't be like, I wouldn't take it that way. But I could see why someone might.

[A]

Sure. I mean, it's, it's a harsh thing to hear.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like I could understand. Like I'm like, like I, I, I would be put.

[B]

Yeah, I would say I, I could

[A]

be put off by that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I would be like, if I was on a date. Who speaks in those terms?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I'd be like, oh, we're kind of different.

[B]

There's a lot. Yeah.

[A]

So I was completely taken aback and mentally checked out right then and there. Towards the end of the date, the topic of pets came up. I mentioned that I wanted to get a kitten and train it to be an adventure kitty that goes camping and paddleboarding with me.

[B]

I can't tell if she's joking.

[A]

I know. I think that's a thing.

[B]

Oh, is it?

[A]

I think there's like a dream of like, if you're like an outdoors person of like you and your cat.

[B]

Your cat can be paddleboarding, I guess. Feels like something for me, right?

[A]

You and Jinxy out in the big, big, big, big world. Mark looked at me and said, yeah, that makes you undesirable. I was shocked. But honestly, at that point, the stakes were zero. So I said, oh, okay. Can I share some feedback with you? Here we go. He said, sure. I told him that using words like and whore on a first date are probably not a good idea. I educated him that RA is a violent crime and not a metaphor for insurance company hiking up their rates. He shrugged and said I was probably right, but didn't seem to fully care. Strangely, because the stakes were non existent, our banter was actually pretty good. And we left on totally fine terms. But both knew there wouldn't be a second date. Let me just give some feedback. You didn't both know this idea that like, we both knew there was no.

[B]

I think this guy thought he was going to go.

[A]

He's like, I could still her. I just wouldn't get in the business.

[B]

Don't speak for someone else.

[A]

For someone else, you know? And I think that also kind of connects to the. I educated.

[B]

I educated him is an annoying term.

[A]

Again, we can only speak to the emailer. So, like, I'm not speaking to him like we would have a different conversation.

[B]

I think, again, she should talk on. In her terms. When you said that, it kind of put me off.

[A]

I'm turned off.

[B]

I don't like, I don't like people using that term rightly.

[A]

And I don't see this going anywhere for us. Us. But it was nice to meet you.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You know, like, I, I just. We both understood there's no we on a first date.

[B]

Specifically not a we.

[A]

Yet we're not we. I don't know. I'm, I'm being. I, I don't mean to be harsh, but I'm like, I didn't like that

[B]

she said educated him.

[A]

Educated him. Like, I. And again, like, because the morality of this is like, I'm not against the person who's turned off by the languaging. I'm, I'm for that person having an opinion on how they're.

[B]

I think it's okay to be turned off.

[A]

Totally. Okay. I just think, like, I think, like, if we're getting into, like, how can we help our dating lives? Your dating life will be very much helped by speaking in high terms and not. You're never going to teach a guy on a date. It is just not gonna.

[B]

Right. I do happen. Right. I like that she. I like the fact that she said I was just kind of like, gonna be honest and say, I don't like that you're saying that. I think that was fine. And then they kind. It sounds like the date went better after that.

[A]

Well, that's the lesson to be taken. Like this whole, like, zero.

[B]

When she see something, say something.

[A]

Right. Like, like the idea of, like, there's zero stakes. There are zero stakes on all the time, all days.

[B]

Right.

[A]

There's no stakes with someone meeting on a person.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Right. So maybe like, this is like, if you were to take anything away from this guy that you're not a match

[B]

with, you don't have to agree with everyone and everyone on every date you're with.

[A]

Right. And maybe you'll be a little more you and have a little bit more of a.

[B]

You should do that anyway.

[A]

Right. I, I, I think, think. I think acting like there's zero stakes is like the move.

[B]

He was being him. He said, it makes that.

[A]

A few weeks later, I ran into my friend and her boyfriend told him how the date went. The boyfriend apologized and said, yeah, I thought he might be a little too conservative for you. So J and J, Red flag or deal breaker? Your date uses aggressive analogies to describe his contracting work, thinks paddle boarding, kittens Are turn off. Sincerely, an undesirable wannabe adventure cat mom.

[B]

I wouldn't like someone that. That said something that I thought was fun, was a turn off, was undesired. Made me undesirable. I think that would be the ultimate. That to me is worse than the. Than either of those phrases.

[A]

Right. To call someone undesirable.

[B]

Right. When you're on a date with.

[A]

Well, he's doing the thing we would say to him. Like who are you to say what is undesirable?

[B]

Desirable maybe to you. Right off to you. You don't have to tell someone that.

[A]

Right. He's doing a Wii for the whole male community.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Like that.

[B]

No one likes that.

[A]

Right.

[B]

You don't like that. That's okay.

[A]

Any form of we on a first date. You've made a mistake.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like I find a woman with a cat who's their partner in crime on a camping date to be undesirable. You would never say that on a date. Because here's the thing. I noticed this for my standup. You know, I, I've tried to eradicate the men, the generalities.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

So when I speak on stage and it's. I go. I don't. I. It's always I. And it's been great for my stand up because I do think it makes it more interesting. I do think I'm also taking more of a chance than the person that goes. Men do this.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

When you say men. We find that undesirable. You're kind of like softening it. You know, you're. You're not taking a stance sense.

[B]

Right. Well, that's what she should have said with the, with the joke.

[A]

Right. I find that really unattractive.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And again, we do this because we not.

[B]

You should not even like you shouldn't do this or. That's bad to say.

[A]

Right.

[B]

It shouldn't be done this way. I think it's. I don't like when people speak like.

[A]

It is way harder to do that because it is a longer road. Like you have to own it. Totally.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And that's the hard part.

[B]

No stakes first state.

[A]

Right. Why not own your Own your language. All right. Let's do another one.

[B]

One.

[A]

Oh, also deal breaker. This guy. You know, I'd be. I, I. Yeah. To say we find it on a. The we of it is you are undesirable. Right.

[B]

The dome of the undatables. Okay. As you would say.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

All right. Dear J and J. All the feathers. Longtime listener to jump in. Are men over the age of 40 on the apps. A red flag. You come to the right place. Oh, my reason. Let's talk about. We. We just had a whole discussion about this.

[A]

You man, you are the red flag.

[B]

Answer this question for all men over 40.

[A]

Let me just answer this question. The writer is the red flag, is the deal breaker.

[B]

There we go. Done.

[A]

We don't even need to answer even. Are all men over for this is. I mean, like, to me, you and your kind. Right. It's so. I just. You're. To me. There's a huge email after this. I'm holding this up on YouTube. I don't need to read it.

[B]

It.

[A]

You need. You have a problem. You need to delete the apps. You're tired of them. You're exhausted. It's okay. Delete them. We can read it. I mean, you can go over all the horrific things.

[B]

Long lists.

[A]

They have. They have first man, second man, final man. They read. They have all these stories that they want to tell about these men acting horribly fine to.

[B]

It doesn't have to do with them being over 40.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Well, I guess what she's asking to go back to almost like the original thing is it's like, like, are me. Are men over 40 who are never. Never been married and single, do they have. Do they often have a fundamental issue with. I mean, it's not even. She's like, she's talking about committing. Do they all. Do they have issues? Are they freaks? Other than you? Other than you?

[A]

I. Right. I. I can't. I think you're getting like, maybe the men over 40 who are on apps are experiencing this exhaustion a different way and lashing out in a different way. But I think it's like, listen, if I said this about women are women. If a guy wrote in, are women over 40 undatable on the dating apps, we'd be like, horrified.

[B]

Yeah, that's true.

[A]

We would go. You need to, like, take a break. You need to, like, go hang out with friends and family. See the thing that, like, fills you up socially, like, get that nourishment from friends and family. I do believe a hang with friends and family can be like eating a good meal. Like, it's really like. And you find out why you're fun and why you're. You have to have. And I listen as a guy who was single very recently and was cynical and feeling down. Like, I think hanging with friends and seeing you kind of have to remind yourself what you. What you are as a social person and what you're looking for and why you keep the friends you keep. I, I think like this email to me and, and none of these guys

[B]

actually seem that bad.

[A]

Okay, we can read it. We can read it. But I, I mean, let me, let

[B]

me ask you a question.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

Do you feel like as a man who was single over 40, do you feel like there are any similarities between you and your fellow 40 plus single men that like. Any commonalities?

[A]

Of course. Right. Yeah.

[B]

Like, such as.

[A]

I think, wanting to go on. Why I think the connection between. They all want to be in something obviously at some point.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I think the way they want to get there is still in a I'm having fun way.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Which I think is the unrelatable.

[B]

That's an interesting point.

[A]

Right?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Because I think I just want to like, you know, I don't want someone that takes themselves too seriously. It's like a very male thing to say, I don't want someone who takes themselves too seriously. And everyone would go, I don't take myself too seriously. Like, no one would even believe. Right.

[B]

Well, we don't even know what that means.

[A]

Right? We don't. And again, I can speak to what that means is what they're saying is I just want to go on date where we have fun. Maybe something fun. Like maybe something. Maybe a hookup happens. Maybe I meet the woman of my life. But they're open to all possibilities. It is not a waste of time to go on a date that everyone gets a little drunk and hooks up and kisses on a street corner and it never turns into a second date date to a, to a man in his 40s.

[B]

And you can't say that to someone.

[A]

Right. And I think on the apps, what I see from a lot of women that write their profiles, I mean, I do dating app makeovers is a lot of like, you know, they're speaking in like the relationship terms. I'm looking for someone who's serious and looking to travel and, and it's just way lighter, which is annoying. I can understand how the feedback would be like, I'm looking.

[B]

Well, this isn't a joke to me.

[A]

Right. They're not a joke to me. And it's like, it's not a joke to the men too. I think like the end goal of like, I want to be with someone who's my match. That makes it feel special. Like that's like the romantic part, but like the stuff to get there, that's

[B]

the thing that men can do because the time, they have unlimited amounts of time.

[A]

Right? Right. They're not in a rush they don't care. They don't think they have to do any self improvement.

[B]

Right. You know, like women it's like no, like I've got like, like I need to get to this point. Like I'm not looking to around.

[A]

Right.

[B]

I've got like yeah, let's, let's do this.

[A]

And also in, in terms of like not biological clock. If you're a 40 year old woman who, who doesn't want a kid or has kids already, you're also like I want to like trust the person.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That I'm out with. I want to feel good about a date I went on.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I want to be respected out respected. I think from the male end of things they, they're in the driver's seat for all that. You know, we don't have to wait on feeling good from the woman making the plan and, and, and, and, and making all like I, I think like. And again, I'm not saying men shouldn't be doing those things but I think like when that's in your hands and like I think in, in the lot of time in the women's hands it's more of a react you. They want proactive guy who wants to go out and has a good time and will go to a nice place and make a plan and the guy just wants her to be there and be fun. Fun.

[B]

Well that's how we'll be fun.

[A]

Right.

[B]

I was always more fun on those dates where we weren't walking around the city looking for a bar.

[A]

Totally. And, and I think the, maybe the male side would also say well am I if I do all these things? And again like the worst version, if I do all these things, will I not might get my money's worth? Like that's the worst version.

[B]

Right.

[A]

But if I do all these things, will I be taken advantage of? I don't know. I, I don't like those because I've never felt that way when I went on a date where I like made a plan and had a reservation.

[B]

Well that's how women think about like sexual things. Like I do all these things. Am I going to be like taken advantage of? Am I going to be both equally,

[A]

both equally insecure in their themselves? Weirdly, like.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And again for the female side of that, like it's more mean to say that maybe.

[B]

No, I think it's, I think there's a, there's a, a truth in it. Like I think there's like a feeling of like I'm, you know, I'm, I don't say I'm giving up something, but, like, I'm giving you a part of myself.

[A]

Right.

[B]

But, like, I don't want that. I want to be, like. I want that to be respected. I want that to be, like, held more sacred.

[A]

Right. And if you think of, like, I guess the man with his money for the date is, like, in a way, giving up hours. He could be working or, like. Right. Or this is uncomfortable to say because, like, resources, right. They're. They're maybe thinking of that in the same way as their bot. As a woman singing. Their body.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Which is like. Like kind of gross in a way, but also, like, if we're really getting deep here.

[B]

I get it. I don't. I think I could see a man thinking that way without feeling like, that he's so insecure. I could see a man thinking, like, I'm. You know, this is like an expense. It's like, not everyone has, like, time, a ton of money as my time. It's my. It is. I'm. You know, I'm whining and dining you. There is a feeling of, like, I don't want to do that. For someone who's like, I think that men's big spirit, they're just here for. They just want a free drink. They just want a free. Like, I don't think any woman is actually doing that.

[A]

I don't think so.

[B]

But, like, I think there's a. There's a fear, especially if you have limited resources, of, like, I'm expect, like, you know, I'm giving up a part of. Part of my self. My money, my.

[A]

There was a woman. There was. I'm sorry to interrupt.

[B]

Don't go.

[A]

But there was a woman at one of the dating book talks, and she made a comment like, I'm going on five dates a week, and, you know, I gotta get a free meal. I'm paying less for groceries. And, like, the joke. I get it. But I guess if any of the guys went on the date with her would be like, right. Maybe not as funny to him. You know, in the same way. Funny, like, in the same way where if a guy was like, yeah, five days a week. You know, like, the hookups are good.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You know, like, you go, you know, like, right.

[B]

It wouldn't feel quite as special. It wouldn't feel as, like, as good about it. I don't necessarily think it makes you feel insecure. I don't think, like, you have to be insecure to feel that way about, like, sex or spending money on a date.

[A]

Right. But I think the, the higher the rate, the more insecure.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Like, if it's okay to have it on your mind, I think if it consumes you.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Then that's your insecurity showing, you know, like.

[B]

Right. And I think that they're on both ends. There's like a level of, of respecting that from the other person. Like, I wouldn't go on like eight dates with a guy I didn't really feel that interested in because I would feel bad having someone spend that much money on me when I wasn't really interested and like, sexually not that interested. Just like, I think a woman would feel bad if she was like, like sleeping with someone and he had, didn't have. Care for her or didn't feel like he was like, wouldn't share that he wasn't looking for anything.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, so, I mean, the. Are men over 40 a red flag on a dating app? I think anyone on a dating app is going to have their own red flags.

[B]

Yeah. And a lot of these didn't. Let's go by a one by one.

[A]

Let's do one by one.

[B]

All right. First man asked me to go to a free concert at a park, which I thought could be a good idea because I could head out kind of whenever.

[A]

Okay. That's a. I would say, like, to give her feedback. Again, we can only speak to the emailer if you're going on a date because there's an escape route. You're not that excited to go on the date. I think you shouldn't go on the date.

[B]

Right. Whenever I want.

[A]

Right. Like, oh, great, I can get out. That's probably not a good start.

[B]

He shows up with a full head of gray hair when he was a brunette and probably six to eight years younger on every app pick. So I immediately felt catfished, especially because I don't have a real problem with gray hair and probably would have matched with him anyway.

[A]

Well, again, when I, when men write in about the pictures being old, I always go, okay. Like, I, I kind of like, I kind of like, think that's a miserable man. You know, like I. When someone's like, the pictures were out of date, I'm like, were they the same general, the same person? Yeah, you know, like I, you know, like, right.

[B]

The gray hair wouldn't really bother.

[A]

Right. But I'm saying, like, to this person, like, obviously there's an insecurity. Like, when I hear from a man, I'm just saying, like, to flip it when I hear that and her, you know, she. I would go dude off like that, you know? And so I would say the same thing to her.

[B]

Okay. What's worse is he showed up with a hammock. Like, I'm going to lay in a hammock with someone that I've never met before.

[A]

I agree with the. The hammock is funny as like a stand up bit.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It doesn't make him a horrible person.

[B]

It doesn't. I think it's. I agree. I would feel weird about it. I wouldn't want to sit on a hammock with a stranger either.

[A]

Bringing a hammock anywhere. Yeah. Hammock with a stranger is hilarious. Yeah.

[B]

You have to, like, tie it up to some trees.

[A]

This is great brunch fodder.

[B]

Yeah. So then he gave you a story worth it.

[A]

All men are 40. No, no, no. I'm not going to say this could

[B]

happen with any age. Right. So I bet I sat on a blanket that I brought while he looked down at me from his hammock that he was laying in the entire day. That's amazing.

[A]

I love it.

[B]

What's even worse than that was the conversation. He talked to me about grasshoppers and how they're hard to kill for 45 minutes because he had a grasshopper infestation in his backyard. Not kidding. He mentioned the words larvae are easier to kill because they don't have a fully formed exoskeleton like the adults. Needless to say, when I was asked on a second date, I said that I thought our interests were too different to meet up again. I think the grasshopper thing is fine. Count.

[A]

Yeah. That's his interest. That's fine.

[B]

Like I would talk about that. I mean, it's your homeowner. Yeah. This is like the. That you. That you deal with every day.

[A]

Totally. Like, I mean, to me, this complaint. Fun brunch fodder.

[B]

Yeah. The hammock thing is like, worth it for, I think. Worth it. Great story.

[A]

But is this a waste of a first date? No.

[B]

No.

[A]

You went to a concert. He made some moves that you wouldn't have that turned you off. Done.

[B]

Hammock is great.

[A]

I'm not going to first dad. I love that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Second man met up at a bar.

[B]

Conversation was decently normal until he asked me how many dates I'd been on from the apps. I said I don't really know and wasn't really prioritizing dating until recently. Instead of taking that answer, he pushed me several more times to give him an estimate. So I said, I don't know, like 2 to 3 and he interrupts me and says, you've only been on two to three dates. Dates. Very judgmentally. Then I finished my sentence and said, a week. Then he was shocked by how many dates I was getting that many days.

[A]

This is like going. This is like eating dinner with my parents. Eat, eat. You're gonna eat. You're not gonna stop eating.

[B]

Do men not realize that most women on the apps could probably go on a date for breakfast, lunch, and dinner? It's just more of a question of whether we have interest in them. That's not why this guy was a deal breaker, though. He asked that question to share what his dating experience was, which was that he got out of a four year earlier relationship two weeks ago, clearly ready to date seriously. And that his ex and him were still living together. His profile said he was looking for marriage. He told me they broke up because she wanted to be non monogamous, which they tried for several years before he felt it made him too insecure and they needed to break up during their non monogamous time. He did find another partner who claimed she was pregnant and then ghosted him. So he hired a private investigator to figure out if he was going to be a father or not. All mentioned on a first date without any awareness that talking about stalking women on a first date might not be the best subject.

[A]

I mean, you gotta delete the apps.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I mean, this is some gentle feedback. I get it. Stalking when you.

[B]

This is another great story. This is great. I would be entertained by this date if he wasn't for me.

[A]

But that's why she needs to delete the apps. Like, this is just like, these are first dates with people that you have very little relation to. That's what the apps are. You get more, but you're gonna get kind of all over the board.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, especially if you are on the apps going out with people where you're convincing yourself to go out with them because there's good escape plans from the date. So, like, again, you wrote the email, so I'm making assumptions based on what she wrote.

[B]

Right.

[A]

When you go on a date because, oh, there's a lot of exits from a free concert. I'm assuming you're not really.

[B]

Imagine going to any other event for that. I'm gonna go to this concert because

[A]

you're going on dates you're not excited about. I was.

[B]

Restaurant has four exits.

[A]

Right? Right. So I can get like. Listen, I'm not saying that you want to be stuck on dates. I'm just saying, like, you don't have to. I, I think she's going on a lot of mediocre dates.

[B]

She's going two to three dates a week, right?

[A]

Yeah, sure.

[B]

You don't need to go. Yeah, go on one date that you're excited about.

[A]

Right.

[B]

A week.

[A]

And, and these apps, we don't want more. We want quality. I would also like, love to see her profile. Do you have things in your profile that make you judge them for messaging you send. Like if someone. If. Yeah. Send your profile in. If a guy is liking your picture saying nothing else, I would go low effort. Are you turned off by that? I'd be more turned off by that, yeah. Than anything else. Are they responding to your prompts and you're, and saying, hey, I actually love outdoor concerts too. I like to bring my hammock, you know, like, do you have a prompt that gets them to say that then,

[B]

Then, yeah, you know, like more predate banter.

[A]

Right. So what's the final man guy that didn't do anything wrong?

[B]

These are all great stories.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

This date happened last night. He asked me to go on a walk. An ice cream date. Perfect. We walk. Convo was fine. I had already decided there would not be a second date because there was no real attraction or chemistry. We finished the walk and get ice cream story over.

[A]

Like, like, I already, like, like, to me, the story's over.

[B]

Are all men over 40, right?

[A]

Like, again, to go back to her original premise of men over 40. Red flags. I think you have this in your head.

[B]

Right?

[A]

You're not really. And again, this was a big topic of the book conversation. You are. I think this is going to. I, I, I don't know how bad this sounds, but I do think it's like when comedians. If I can relate it to my own career, when I hear a comedian say, you can't say anything anymore, I know that's a comedian who doesn't want to work, who doesn't do right. Doesn't write, doesn't un. Like isn't getting on stage. They're just being lazy. So when a comedian says you can't say anything anymore, when anyone says you can't say anything anymore, it's lazy to me. That's my immediate thought. When someone makes the women. Men over 40 are undateable. It's a lazy take that you're allowed to have because you're punching up.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So, So I would say when you're, there's, you know, it sucks to be. I don't, I don't disagree that you're Punching up like, I like you are. Men are in control. They're being annoying. I get it. But you kind of like, I have to be smarter about what I say because I know I can really veer off and sound despicable and horrible. And I need to, I need to make sure what I say. I'm like, owning the words. She's not really being careful with her thoughts because she's allowed to be like to me, like, we went on a date. We didn't match the ice cream day. He planted ice cream date and you didn't match. Not. No. All men over 40 are not a red flag.

[B]

I'd already decided there would not be a second.

[A]

Right. So let's hear what happened. What, why he's a loser.

[B]

We finished the walk and get ice cream. I got a cup. He got a call.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

We sit down and I cannot emphasize enough how quickly this man was shoving the cone in his face. This. He's eating it like it's an eating competition. I was truly in shock. I'm trying to continue our conversation, but I'm getting no response because he's speed eating this ice cream cone. Then when there's like half.

[A]

Was it hot out? Was the cone melting? I mean, like, when it's melting, I,

[B]

I kind of have to do that.

[A]

Right? I look like otherwise there's going to

[B]

be ice cream all over your hand.

[A]

Right. I one of what did he look like? He could go down on you based on how he did it. I mean, it might be a positive to someone.

[B]

Then when there's like half of this ice cream left, he gets up and throws it out and says he has a phobia of melted ice cream.

[A]

I kind of have the same phone that makes sen Sticky hands. Yeah.

[B]

Not judging phobias, but maybe don't ask someone on an ice cream date. Then I was kind of at a loss, so I said, should we just call it? And ended the date. Thanks for all you do. And off the apps trying IRL betch. Where is she meeting these people?

[A]

She needs to go on walks with friends. I think, like, because I, I just think she needs to go on walk with friends. Like summer challenge. Summer challenge. She's got to kind of like, this

[B]

is nothing to do with men over 40.

[A]

No, I, I, this doesn't even transientially

[B]

relate to being over.

[A]

Right. And, and this is the most on the Internet that we are the most empathetic that you're gonna find. Like, I put up a video of a woman being like, hey, I went On a date with a guy.

[B]

He.

[A]

He wore like, sports merch on every date. And we got into it, we had, like, a fun conversation about it. The comments that came back like, oh, low effort, and he. And you don't even like him and who cares? And, like, the immediate response to that is always horrific.

[B]

Right?

[A]

And I'm saying, we're doing this. We're having this out. We're being a hug and a whisper part.

[B]

It's why this doesn't make good clips.

[A]

Right. Because trash these guys with you. Or we could have told you how much of a heinous you sound like. Yeah, we didn't do either. We're saying delete the apps.

[B]

Here's the thing. You could also have fun with the ice cream thing.

[A]

The ice cream thing.

[B]

Like, if you're on a fun date and that happens, I'll lick it. Like, whoa. Like. Like you're getting in there. So, like, they would. It could be a fun back and forth about the thing. Not like, like, he ate this ice cream so incredibly fast. It was disgusting. Like, that's not so. Like, she sounds like she's bringing a bad vibe.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

If it's hot, you need to eat the ice cream quickly or it's going to be all over your hands. And then the guy on the date with the ice cream fingers. Sticky ice cream fingers.

[A]

If I could hear this story from a married couple, then you're being miserable. Like, I could totally understand in the

[B]

first date, the hammock thing. Very funny.

[A]

Right? The first date, he ate his ice cream so fast. I was like, I couldn't believe it.

[B]

It.

[A]

And now they're married.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, that story could be what are we? Or how our story. Our story page. So let's do one more. My boyfriend and I, both 28, have been dating for two years and recently moved in together. He told me during a recent conversation that living together so far has felt like a vacation. Is this a red flag or deal breaker or am I overthinking it? I would not say it has been a vacation for myself. It's been both fun and challenging. We both do chores and this is his first time fully living independently. Is this a sign that I am just not taken seriously? Am I a good time or a short time girlfriend? Thanks for everything you do.

[B]

This sounds like a compliment. I would take this as a compliment. As much as living with you is so fun, it feels like a vacation.

[A]

I'm with you. It's funny. She took it you. I guess you could take this as I'm not taking you seriously. But as. As negatively as she took it. I'm with you. I took it way more.

[B]

Every day is a fun day with you. Yeah.

[A]

I. I don't someone.

[B]

It wouldn't it be worse if he said, as so far, living together has felt like a lot of work.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Like a colonoscopy.

[A]

She says, right. He told me during. She says, I would say it was not a vacation for myself. Fun and challenging. What has been challenging? Yeah, like, I, I would. That's more like, like not being taken seriously. Right. I don't.

[B]

She doing all. Is she doing the chore? She said we both do chores.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Like, that's the challenging. I could see being annoyed if you lived with someone and you were. You were cleaning the whole apartment and making them dinner and they just, like, were there and they were like, wow, like, I don't have to do anything now that I live with someone. This feels like a vacation.

[A]

A vacation could mean, like, I just love so much every day I get to hang with you.

[B]

We watch tv, we hang out, we get ice cream.

[A]

Right. I eat it quick and then I can, you know, go home. I. I also, like, I don't have to, like, go to your place all the time. Like, it's taking a lot of the travel time, the, the. The Uber expenses out of it. Like, this is great.

[B]

Yeah. I would never think. He doesn't take me seriously. He lives with you.

[A]

Right. And. And if that is where your brain is going, if you can think of an example that he is just getting by. Like, why. If. If. If he said vacation, you're like, well, it's because I do this every day and it sucks for me. That's the moment to say it to him.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, like, let's have a communication right now.

[B]

Right? If she feels like she's doing more work now they live together. Let's discuss it. It. Okay, but that. That line in itself, I would be complimented by that.

[A]

Right? I would too.

[B]

Well, I said to you, Jared, doing this podcast with you feels like a vacation.

[A]

Well, would you be like, am I being. Doing all the work?

[B]

Am I being taken seriously as a podcast host? No, I.

[A]

This is a vacation for me. I love coming in here and doing this show, and we love that you guys enjoy.

[B]

Maybe V doesn't think it's a vacation. She's.

[A]

It's a chore for her.

[B]

Vacation for you guys.

[A]

That's right. We get to go. Go on vacation. Vacation twice a week. If you're listening this deep into the podcast, I'M sure you find this to be a vacation for you as well. Tell a friend, thank you, thank you, thank you. And tell friends. So we mean it. We love it. We solve dating again.

[B]

We did it. Bye. Boom.