The Silent Relationship Killer you CAN Avoid ft Aleen Dreksler

Summary

Podcast Summary: U Up? — The Silent Relationship Killer You CAN Avoid ft. Aleen Dreksler

Podcast: U Up?
Host: Jared Freid (filling in for Jordana Abraham)
Guest: Aleen Dreksler (Betches Co-Founder & CEO)
Release Date: March 11, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this lively, candid episode, Jared Freid is joined by Betches co-founder and CEO, Aleen Dreksler, to discuss the often-unseen culprit in modern long-term relationships: the silent killer of expectations, communication breakdowns, and the nuanced balancing of family, work, and romance. Together, they use wit, personal anecdotes, and listener emails to unpack what keeps couples together (or chips away at them). Topics range from dating your spouse when you have kids and careers, to dealing with enmeshment with parents, tricky in-law situations, and gendered expectations about family and work. Plus, the episode delivers plenty of signature “U Up?” games and audience questions, always in the podcast’s fresh, humorous, and honest style.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Reality of Being a Modern “Boss Bitch” and Juggling It All

[00:26–04:44]

• Aleen’s Public Persona: Jared notes Aleen’s “Boss Bitch” CEO energy on Instagram and probes the authenticity vs. fakery of founder culture online.
  • Quote: “You are doing Boss Bitch Instagram. You are showing the life of a founder, CEO, and you're giving us the real.” (Jared, 01:22)
• What Real Life Feels Like: Aleen pushes back, describing the messy, exhausting day-to-day behind the glossy founder image.
  • Quote: “It feels like my kid is in my bed sleeping and I don't have any sleep... I put them to bed... then I’m convincing my husband to like, can we have dinner at least together?... Then I fall asleep until my kid comes back in my bed. And we do that over and over.” (Aleen, 03:35)
• Dating Your Spouse as Parents: Jared asks how to keep romance alive when life is a constant grind.

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2. How to Stay Connected as a Couple Over the Long Haul

[04:44–14:44]

• Dating Your Husband and Keeping It Real: Aleen gives a behind-the-scenes look at how she and her husband (Rusty) approach “date night”, intimacy, and staying close amid chaos:

  • There’s no formal plan — dates are spontaneous (“no standing date night because it’s tough” – 09:19) and driven by mutual empathy.
  • Both partners work hard, love their kids, but agree not to vilify each other if life gets hectic.
  • Being able to “just get to the date” is the secret, not over-planning.
  • Real talk on romance: Kids must be out of the house for romance to be realistic (“...the real date happens when we are like, we need to leave. We need to exit our home.” – 12:26)

• The Danger of High Expectations:

  • Quote: “What I’ve learned over these 12 years is, like, expectations kill relationships and intimacy and closeness.” (Aleen, 13:15)
  • Letting go of the idea that things have to be perfect is key to happiness (“every time you do the high expectation thing, it never goes—you’re never happy” – 14:04).

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3. Strategic (and Fun) Approaches to Dating Apps

[14:44–16:00]

• Aleen’s Legendary JDate Profile:
  • Her opening line? “Define your perfect day. It just said epic make out sesh.” (Aleen, 14:45)
  • She used humor and a hint of flirtation to filter matches, gaining control and filtering intentions.

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4. RED FLAG or DEAL BREAKER: Not Thanking a Partner in an Award Speech

[18:38–25:19]

• Game: Red Flag or Dealbreaker — If your partner won an Oscar and didn’t thank you, would you let it slide?
  • Aleen: Total dealbreaker — “This man is not just divorced... he is dead to me.” (Aleen, 19:56)
  • Jared offers “acceptable omissions” (e.g., if the speech is dedicated to a teacher, Meemaw, or the troops).
  • Lots of witty banter about how (not) to blow the speech and what would suffice as adequate thanks.
  • Quote: “I want to do everything I can to preserve the bang.” (Jared, 21:07)

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5. Navigating In-Law Dynamics and Enmeshment

[35:39–48:24]

• Email: Is My Boyfriend Too Enmeshed With His Mom?
  • Extensive, nuanced discussion of enmeshment—where are the healthy boundaries?
  • Aleen explains: “You are the CEO of that room. And regardless of what [parents] say... they’re not there to drive your decisions.” (Aleen, 39:54)
  • Jared’s take: It may feel like enmeshment, but until you’re “on the board” of someone’s life (truly serious), parents will often come first.
  • Aleen and Jared share methods of managing strong-willed parents, picking battles, and the importance of your partner standing up for your couple’s boundaries.
  • If a partner won’t advocate for you with their family, that’s a relationship red flag.

Mini-Game: Mother-in-Law “Negotiate or Nope”

[49:23–51:38]

• Would you negotiate with or fold to various in-law requests?
  • Aleen gives practical advice for choosing battles, using intermediaries (your spouse), and when to take a stand.

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6. Modern Gender Roles, Childcare, and The Career vs. Family Debate

[62:05–70:54]

• Email: Husband Urging Wife to Quit Job to Stay Home with Kids
  • Aleen highlights how this scenario underpins the gender wage gap, with default assumptions that mom should sacrifice her career.
    • “She needs to basically tell him my career is really important to me... it is not temporary.” (Aleen, 64:48)
  • Jared zeroes in on the importance of eliminating guilt and competition (“take away the morality and the money... stick to values”; 67:22–69:44).
  • Both agree: deciding whose career “matters more” is dangerous and devaluing.
  • Happy parents = happy kids. You each need to do what fulfills you as individuals first—for the family’s long-term benefit.

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7. Classic U Up? Games & Advice Segments

• “Red Flag or Dealbreaker” — Thank you speech drama.
• “Petty or Prudent” — Is an ex crashing your run club “petty” or “logical”? The ex’s communication comes off as weird and controlling (“He’s being prudent about his pettiness.” – 58:36).
• “Icky or Picky” — Is being put off by a guy’s ‘no phones at the table’ rule on date two valid, or am I picky? 100% valid says the panel: “Show, not tell.” (Jared, 73:15)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Modern Partnership:
  “You are the CEO of that room. And regardless of what... [parents] are there to offer advice, but they’re not there to drive your decisions.” (Aleen, 39:54)
• On High Expectations:
  “Expectations kill relationships and intimacy and closeness... If your expectations are like ‘let's just be together, I don’t care what it's like,’ that’s the key.” (Aleen, 13:15)
• On Gender Roles in Parenting:
  “If choosing family means one of us sacrifice career growth, why is that automatically me?” (Listener email, 63:27)
• On Petty Exes:
  “He’s being prudent about his pettiness.” (Jared, 58:36)
• On Filtering Dates:
  “Epic make out sesh... It was strategic. I trapped Rusty.” (Aleen, 15:00)
• On In-Law Boundaries:
  “If a husband’s not going to bat for you to their mom, couples therapy. Or more.” (Jared & Aleen, 52:04)
• On ‘Rules’ in Dating:
  “I am turned off by anyone who says versus does… Show, not tell.” (Jared, 73:15)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

| Timestamp | Topic/Segment | | --------- | ------------- | | 00:26–04:44 | Aleen on CEO life, social media vs. real life | | 04:44–14:44 | Dating your spouse post-kids, keeping connection | | 14:44–16:00 | Writing JDate profiles – “epic make out sesh” | | 18:38–25:19 | Red Flag/Deal Breaker: Oscar speech thank-yous | | 35:39–48:24 | Enmeshment with parents, in-law management | | 49:23–51:38 | Game: Negotiate or Nope (Mother-in-law scenarios) | | 62:05–70:54 | Email: Gendered expectations, stay-at-home debates | | 73:04+ | Icky or Picky — “No phones at the table” rule on a date |

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Summary Tone and Takeaways

This episode strikes a powerful balance between humor, deep relationship insight, and practical advice. Aleen and Jared break down big issues—like how parental involvement, work/life balance, and bad communication patterns kill modern relationships—and give listeners actionable advice on boundary-setting. The recurring theme: honest communication and letting go of rigid expectations is key to survival in the long run. The games and listener emails keep it real (and funny), making this episode a must-listen for anyone navigating love, career, and family today.

Transcript

[A]

I'm. I like, I started doing a bit where I'll be at. I'll be dead in my coffin and I'll like, be hovering above and my mom will be going, you just go up to any murderer. Hello and welcome to the podcast. I'm Jared Freed and I am joined by today's co host, Aileen Drexler. Thank you for coming on.

[B]

Thank you. I am nervous.

[A]

How are you nervous?

[B]

You're the same podcast studio that I record in every week. Week.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You're here and yet I'm on you up. And I'm in Jordana's seat.

[A]

Hold on. Let's talk about the chairs. If we have to talk about the chairs. I walked in, I've been sitting in the skinny chair. And then I walk in and Aileen goes, you can sit on your couch now, you fat. Get to your fat loser chair. I'm in the skinny chair. She said, I'm the CEO. You get out of my chair. That's what she said to me. Yeah, you're in the. You're in the great chair. No, listen, alien, it is a pleasure to have you back.

[B]

I know.

[A]

Episode one.

[B]

I was here.

[A]

You were here.

[B]

Me, you, Jordana, Sammy, the whole gang.

[A]

Four founders in a dorm. We all got back together. How are you? What's going on? You are doing. If people aren't following you on.

[B]

Yeah, what am I doing?

[A]

Socials. I'll give you my view.

[B]

Okay. Please. I can't wait.

[A]

You're doing Boss Bitch Instagram. You are showing the life of a founder, CEO, and you're giving us the real. I. I think that. Is there a lot of faking it in that world?

[B]

Yes. Many people.

[A]

I'm saying you're doing it. I see it and I go, aileen is doing everything you're doing on social media. That is how I know you. Yes, you are.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

Doing the company. You're trying to take this, you know, batches and go from one, you know, one height to another. Height, constant height, constant height mode. You are climbing mountains. Everything is true to form.

[C]

But.

[A]

But I'm. I. I think out there that I see it. I think everyone, if I'm seeing it, everyone's seeing it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

There's this like, you know, I'm starting a business fakery going on on Instagram. How do you feel about that?

[B]

I feel like people have their own way. They either try to fake it till they make it so they look like, you know, because those manifesting things is like, act as if you've made it and it will all come. But then there's just some people who just like pretend that they're working by just creating content. But then some people's work is to create the content. I don't know.

[A]

It's all.

[B]

I don't care. I try not to pay too much attention because I. The problem I have is I don't have enough time to create content. So I just like, we'll post a story.

[A]

That's the, that's the bad bitch CEO. I don't have time. I don't pay someone to do it for me.

[B]

It's true. I'm still looking for that person.

[A]

If you're out there and you want to make content for Aileen, DM her, not me. I am not going to help you get the job. Yes, I, Well, I do think it is. Know when it comes to dating and relationships and social media, it doesn't matter, but it does. It's head trash. We have to like swallow it, consume it. We have to digest it. So when I see like, you know, I'm sure you're giving a lot of people inspiration. They're like, okay, she's got two kids, she's married. You're doing it all. You're doing a very sitcom movie. Yeah, but I'm saying like, you could be a movie could be made from your life. But I'm saying you're, you're the real life version of the movie.

[B]

My God, thank you.

[A]

But don't you think that sometimes.

[B]

I don't ever.

[A]

But I think a lot of people, if they're an online.

[B]

Because it doesn't feel that way. It doesn't feel that way at all.

[A]

How does it feel?

[B]

It feels like my kid is in my bed sleeping and I don't have any sleep. I show up to work, I try to make my hair nice, and then I try to make a lot of decisions in a small, compact amount of time to make it home in time so that I see them for at least 30 minutes before I get so hangry that I just start screaming. I put them to bed and I have like, Then I'm like convincing my husband to like, can we have dinner at least tonight together? And then we go our separate ways. I go and watch Game of Thrones or I play mahjong on my iPad for at least like 30 minutes. And then I go and like do my, the work that he didn't have time for during the day. And then I fall the fuck asleep until my kid comes back in my bed. And we do that over and Over.

[A]

This is a dating and relationship podcast. I think that will make people feel very seen and heard if they are in the similar position. You also. It'll make people who are not in relationships that are hoping to get into one go. Okay, good. I can. Wait a minute. I can. Birth control, right? Like, okay, okay. There's. Everyone has their own stresses.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

How do you date your husband while all of that is going on? Like, I think that's like a. I think it's an interest. I was thinking a lot. I'm like, what are we going to talk about? I want aliens going to be fantastic. I know that. But like, like, you know, there's a dating show and you haven't dated since.

[B]

When I met Rusty, my husband, who. I know you guys chat about Penn State.

[A]

I know Rusty.

[B]

He didn't go to Penn State. He's a Penn State fan, but he loves Penn State.

[A]

Rusty's a great guy. I remember when you guys, like, got together. Like, I remember when you started dating each other, but, I mean, to me, almost feels like yesterday. I remember you kind of were the. The first domino in the ladies finding love.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

And you kind of led the way.

[B]

Yeah. So I met rusty on JDate.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

In 2014. And when. I mean, when I say JD, I mean on a desktop computer.

[A]

Okay. So.

[B]

So I was typing my messages.

[A]

Let me tell the Gen Z's about a desktop. Now, back in our day, you'd go down to the computer room and you'd hear. And you'd go, get off the second line, Mom. And then you hear.

[B]

I thankfully lived alone at that point.

[A]

So you didn't have a computer.

[B]

I did not, But I did. I was on the laptop because, like, dating apps, I mean, yeah, there was Tinder, and everybody remembers that. There was, like, coffee meets bagels and whatever. But I was on JDate. My grandma was, like, you know, guilting me. We know Jewish guilt to our core. You need to find a Jewish. You need to find a Jewish. So I was like, okay, fine, I'll go on this fucking J date.

[A]

Was she paying it for.

[B]

No.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Debatable. If Forresti's mom was paying for it.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

So I. Yeah, I went on it. I. And I, we. I met a bunch of different people. I was also dating a good amount. And then we went on a date, and. And we went to high school together.

[A]

So, you know, this is a.

[B]

So I know him well.

[A]

This is a very relatable. You know, this is like a relatable dating thing where you meet someone on a Dating app that you have some familiarity with. And it moves quicker because you guys share the same street signs. You know, teachers, high school. You have a lot of commonalities. So this is also in Go in one or two directions. It makes it. It's like kind of like a Covid relationship. Like. Yeah, it goes even quicker towards everything, but then also towards breakups too, because you go, we kind of run out of steam because we're done with all these commonalities. And then we end up hooking up. And then it was all for that night.

[B]

For. Yeah. And I remember specifically that weekend I went on a date, like Thursday night, Friday night, and he was my Saturday night date. And I did not want to go, although I was excited and he was. Didn't really want to go also, he told me later, but he was also kind of excited. So we both kind of reluctantly showed up and then we had a great time. And then I didn't go on it. I. From what I believe, we've been dating each other exclusively since then. Unless that bastard went on dates with other people.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

But we maybe had one or two more. I don't fucking want to know.

[A]

Yeah, we don't want to know.

[B]

So we've been together since then. And yeah, that was 2014, so like 12 years this year.

[A]

So how long you been married?

[B]

Since 2019. So that's like six, seven guys, math. Me, I don't know.

[A]

Seven years.

[B]

Seven years this year.

[A]

But. So now how do I date him? How do you date him? How do you keep it up? What is. Do you have strategies? Are there touch bases? What is. Do you have a thing? No, there's no plan here. We don't just like, keep it going.

[B]

Yes. Everyone's like, do business meetings do, like monthly. I don't. I can't. I don't. I have enough of that here. Like, I don't. I don't have the brain capacity to like, also add structure, any healthy structure to my, like, personal life.

[A]

Sure. But I'm sure there's people in long term relationships who are like, just looking for some sort of strategy.

[B]

I'm happy to share.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So we'll sometimes be like, oh, hey, we haven't seen each other on a real date night in a while, so we'll just kind of book it on a whim and one of us will just take it. It's not. And I think if one of us has been doing it many times in a row, it'll just be. Then I'll call him out or he'll Call me out and then the other one will do it. So we just went on a really fun date night. We sell. We were like, let's do something. Like, we haven't done anything in a while.

[A]

How does that come up? So let's do something. We haven't done anything in a while. Give me. Give me that. How?

[B]

Either via text or during the day or at dinner. Like, if we'll sit. We'll sit any dinner together, either in silence, or we'll ask each other about their days or we'll about something or watch a show.

[A]

So then someone says, yeah, what do we do? We gotta do something. We gotta do something.

[B]

Yeah. There's no standing date night because it's tough. Like, we both go out for work. Like, for work. Drinks and stuff. So I just. I don't want to miss so many bedtimes with my kids.

[A]

But, you know, it's funny because we get emails here where it's like, they never do this. This person. We get people that paint people as the guy who doesn't make a plan or, you know, like a lot of times I'm saying. But this sounds like a lot of empathy and negotiation. Because the idea that you're like, hey, we haven't done something, but you're not vilifying.

[B]

No. Because we both work. We both have really intense jobs. Right. And we both have the same values. We love our family, we love our kids, we want to spend time with them, but we also really love each other. We know that, like, we kind of come last together, but we make. We're both not, like, yelling at each other about that. I mean, don't get me wrong, we fight like animals. Me personally, but I've done a lot of work anyway, so most recently, we. I guess, I think I texted him. I was like. He was like, let's go to this. It's dinner. Let's go to. Let's go to this hotel and we'll stay overnight and do something fun. Like. Okay, that sounds fun.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I'm like, I got a. I got a gift card for the holidays to, like, air in Shabazz. I'm like, what if we do that in the morning? It's like, that sounds great.

[A]

You know, it's funny because it's like, you know, when married people hear dating, you know, single people problems.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, it's hard for them to relate because, like, even you're saying, I got a coupon.

[B]

Yeah. You know, like, no, it wasn't a coupon. It was a gift card.

[A]

Gift card. Well, but if someone's, like, to a

[B]

couple's massage at a fancy bath house.

[A]

Well, that's the thing about dating is, like, if you go. If you said that, you know, if a woman went on a date with a guy, he's like, used a gift card to pay for it, she might be like, well, he used a gift card. It was kind of, like, tacky. But then he's like, it's at a fancy hotel and couples massage. But you're like, well, that comes when you're six years, seven years in.

[B]

Yeah, maybe. No, I mean, because it's both our joint money and we're saving it together.

[A]

Right? Right.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

So you go.

[B]

So we did that.

[A]

So you did that. Where does the kid go? Who. Who takes care of.

[B]

We have a nanny or we had. Was it my nanny or my mom? I don't remember. Somebody watched the kids.

[A]

They. Some stranger.

[B]

They found somebody. Our neighbor. I don't fucking know. So. And we did that, and we went to dinner. Oh. And then I saw. I got tickets to see this, like, this masquerade thing. It's like an immersive Phantom of the Opera experience.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And it was just really fucking fun. And also, we compromised because both of us could not do towards Valentine's Day, and neither of us really give a flying fuck about Valentine's Day.

[A]

Can't do Valentine's Day. This is our Valentine's Day.

[B]

Yeah. And we're like, let's hang out. This is a moment. And that was it. We both had such a good time. And that's. And we had quality time. I think the only way to really date each other is, like, your kids need to be somewhere else. Like, I don't. I can't, like, look at him romantically.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

If our children are in the room, like, I'm, like, very affectionate. And I'll just like. And then I'll just, like, yell at him if he's not being affectionate. It always works so well. And be affectionate. Now I'll be like, I need love.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, we touch base, but it's like the real date happens when we are like, we need to leave. We need to exit our home. We need to go somewhere. It doesn't have to be overnight.

[A]

But I. I like this because I think what I'm hearing.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, I hear what I hear.

[B]

Interpret.

[A]

What do you hear? This is my. This is my Brosetta stone. Is that. It's not about how you get to the date. It's getting to the date.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I think A lot of people when they're single lose that. When they're three months in and they're not sure if things lose that. Yeah, it's like the texting is off. And I do agree with all these things, all these little, like, side adventures and issues and problems of like, ah, we don't, you know, but it's like, get to the date, you know, because what you're saying is like, get the kids out of there and just get to a place where we can be together.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

All the rest will fall into place as it does.

[B]

And sometimes it's not perfect because you can also, like, I'll be in a mood or he'll be in a mood from work and we're not like on the same page. And it's just whatever, you know, it's like what I've learned over these 12 years is like, expectations kill relations or relationships and intimacy and closeness. Like, I. When you just expect something to be like this and it never, it never meets it, then it ruins it. If your expectations are like, let's just be together. I don't give a what it's like.

[A]

Are you a type A?

[B]

Extremely.

[A]

How do you do that as a type A?

[B]

Gross.

[A]

Right? Personality. What you're saying is so beautiful. No, Right. Like, like, that's like. Because I'm hearing this, I'm like, just let it happen. We get on the date. How? What's the work?

[B]

Is there something work? It just. You just, you keep learning, you keep reminding yourself that every time you do the high expectation thing, it never goes, you're never happy. So what needs to change? Not somebody else, but you and your expectations.

[A]

Like, that's a lesson for life. Like, listen, I have that with, like, things in work where, yeah, I can dream of how I see it going and the minute I get into that zone, it's like nothing's ever going to go the way you imagine it.

[B]

Never. Never.

[A]

Well, we're happy to let go.

[B]

I appreciate it. On my JDate profile, I wrote and this is. I liked dating. I have to say, I had so much fun on my day date profile. And this is what hooked people in every single time.

[A]

Okay, here we go.

[B]

This is what it said.

[A]

This is. This is the annoying married person giving you the advice. Okay.

[C]

Give it to us.

[B]

No, I'm not giving advice.

[A]

No, this is do this.

[B]

I'm telling you, this is what works for me. I wrote define your perfect day. It just said epic make out sesh and.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And epic makeup.

[B]

And then it got a bunch of Guys. And I got to, like, filter who I wanted to hang out with.

[A]

I love it. I'm a huge fan of writing epic makeout sesh to define your future day. Because you know what it is?

[B]

It's fun.

[A]

And it's fun. Yeah. And also it. You're playing to what men like.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Which is casual.

[C]

Exactly.

[A]

Which is fun. Casual. If we make out, that's a win. If we don't go that funny, because.

[B]

Yes, because sesh very. I. It was strategic.

[A]

It's funny. And it also, sesh isn't, you know, a French kiss that we will desire forever is different than epic makeout sessions. Like, you know, it's like, oh, yeah, we had an epic makeout session. It was, like, crazy. It takes the air out of it, the edge off. I like it.

[B]

And it gave me, like, control there because I. I.

[A]

Well, because now the men are eating the cheese, and now you can see who to trap.

[B]

Yes, exactly.

[A]

I like it.

[B]

And I trapped Rusty.

[A]

Everyone go. Follow. And now Rusty's trapped forever in the suburbs.

[B]

He loves it.

[A]

He. I feel like he. Well, I will say, yeah, he does scream Phil Dunphy. He does energy, like, probably. He seems like dad energy.

[B]

He loves. Yeah, he loves it. He wants to, like, coach football.

[A]

I. I hope he doesn't see that as a negative. I think that's he's how I would describe him in the little bit that I know him.

[B]

Yep, Yep. A hundred percent.

[C]

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[A]

Let's do some emails. We going to do. We're going to start with a red flag deal break. I just love this because this is like married people on the couch having a discussion and this is something I

[B]

could Are you and I married in this? What are we talking about?

[A]

I guess we're married but I'm saying the person who write in you can, you can feel this is like let me see what the podcast thing. So we wanted to start with this one. Red flag or deal breaker which is the game that is sweeping the nation. You are dating someone, you do one thing. You are they you're dating someone, they do one thing. You either red flag. I notice it but we're gonna like stay, keep going or it's a deal breaker. I gotta end it sight unseen. Ready?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Hi JJ and a My husband and I were talking about the Oscar movies we need to watch before the award show this weekend. I joked with my husband and just told Him. I would have no choice but to file for divorce if he won an award and didn't thank me in his speech. So red flag or deal breaker? Your significant other wins an Oscar and doesn't thank you in their acceptance speech.

[B]

I mean, how significant is other?

[A]

Rusty wins an award for dad of the Year. He goes up on stage at the Long Island Dad Awards.

[B]

This man is. Is not just divorced.

[A]

God.

[B]

He is done. He's dead to me.

[A]

He is.

[B]

He is over there. Is. There is. There is not an award in sight after that.

[A]

You do. Okay, well, let me. Let me ask you this. Is there a way that he could not thank you if he's just, like,

[B]

for klempt, and he just completely loses his mind and he gets really nervous? That's the way.

[A]

Be okay with that.

[B]

I'd be like, okay, I get it. Like, I understand. It gets. You get nervous. He.

[A]

He's nervous and he goes up and he goes, I want to thank my agent.

[B]

If he thinks his mom.

[A]

I want to thank my nanny and my mom. And then leaves you.

[B]

Yeah, that would be uncomfy.

[A]

What would you say to him?

[B]

I'd say. That's all I'd say.

[A]

It'd be one facial expression.

[B]

Like, are you fucking kidding me? That's what I would say. And he'd be like, what? And I'd say, you didn't say me. He'd be like, oh, shit.

[A]

It was one of those things where if I won an award, like, an Oscar.

[B]

Yeah, you better be thanking me.

[A]

Well, I want. Right. Well, I want to be like, the cap off of the night is getting laid with the award next to the bed.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

So I want to do everything I can to preserve the bang.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So, like, the idea that someone would forget their wife.

[B]

No, it's crazy.

[A]

If I was in the crowd, my wife wins an Oscar, I would be okay with them not thanking me.

[B]

Why?

[A]

You either have. I want the whole speech about me if you're gonna thank me. I don't want to be included with an agent.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I want to thank my agent, their assistant, and, oh, yeah, my husband.

[B]

But what if you get like a. And finally, I want to say thank you so much to Jared, my sweet, sweet, sweet husband, for constantly supporting me and calling me sweet, sweet, sweet husband.

[A]

You make me sound like I'm the dog.

[B]

You are a dog.

[A]

You're a companion. You're. You're always good. You're a good boy.

[B]

They say the best husbands are the Labrador. Labrador. What are they called? Gold. Why do I keep calling them Labradors. I did this yesterday.

[A]

Here's the acceptance speeches. I'll accept.

[B]

He came with notes.

[A]

I came with notes.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Okay. Here's the acceptance speech. Okay. You go on stage, you win the award. I want to thank the only person in my life that matters. My husband has been there through thick and thin, supported me when it seemed that I was at. When I was at my worst. And without him, I would not be here today holding this award. All the other people in my life pale in comparison to how great he is and how wonderfully he makes me come on a nightly basis.

[B]

He preserved the bang, right? Yeah.

[A]

That would. Now I'm going down on her like fucking crazy. Now I'm the golden retriever. I'm slopping her up. Okay. Here are the ways you could not thank me.

[B]

Okay, you ready? I can't wait.

[A]

If my wife went on stage and did a message to all the haters, I'm cool with it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Just went on a revenge tour. Let me tell you how I think of you. All the people that doubted me, like, if they were on a WWE style heel speech.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

I'm okay with not being thanked.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

If they suck it. Right? Right. End it with a suck it. You didn't believe in me, so you can go suck it. I would be, like, kind of turned on. I'm still golden retriever and.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Okay. I'm still slapping them up. Okay. If they. You brought up the dog. Okay.

[B]

You brought up the sloppy.

[A]

So if they did a thank you to a dead relative, I'd be okay with not being thanked. I think you can leave me out of the thank you speech. If it's all about Meemaw and how Meemaw used to play piano with me, and for that reason, I won this award.

[B]

You don't need to be there.

[A]

I'm okay to be left out of the Meemaw speech.

[B]

Are you still.

[A]

I'm still slopping her up.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I'll slop her up. And I will look to the sky and think of Meemaw while doing it. God, if they thank a teacher who believed in them.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I'm okay with being left out of the speech.

[B]

You're still. Okay.

[A]

Still slapping them up. Still. So totally cool.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Because if it's a teacher that believed him, I've never been believed in by anyone. So the idea.

[B]

I believed in you.

[A]

You did. Except the batches. Except for Aileen, Sammy and Jordana and Jared. They're the only ones who believed in me. So I. I would thank you guys if I thanked you guys and didn't thank my wife. I think my wife would understand. Like, this is a bitches only speech. I get it. I would get it. Teacher who believed in me. Like, I'd be like, this is a movie. Like, how could I have. No, no, no. Don't bring me up. I'm not. I didn't believe in you that much. The teacher believed.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

If they thanked a celebrity who recently passed, that inspired them. I would understand being left out of that speech.

[B]

Okay. There's a lot of. There's a lot of, you know, exceptions.

[A]

Well, I'm just saying. Well, listen, I. We were wondering, could they red flag a deal breaker? It's only a deal breaker if I'm in. Not included with this, like, I see a huge list of savages presence.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That I'm like, you know, faceless. Right. Also, the last one, they could leave me out. If they thank the troops.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

If they go into thanking the troops. Okay. I don't want Jared and Jared and

[B]

my husband Jared, sweet boy.

[A]

I want to thank the troops, the people that protect me every day. Also my big wuss of a husband who wasn't man enough to enlist. Like, I don't want to be involved in that speech.

[B]

I agree.

[A]

Get me out of there. So that is what it is.

[B]

Rusty still dead, though, if he doesn't thank me.

[A]

So none of those. Would Rusty be able to get off. Get away with it if he thanked the troops and a lean.

[B]

No, I. I think that he. Yeah, I would. I don't get. I don't. He's not winning an Oscar.

[A]

Okay. Who do you want to win an Oscar? We. Let's do a little bit of Oscar preview. Best picture is Begonia. Don't know that one. F1. I watched 10 minutes. Frankenstein.

[B]

F1's not winning.

[A]

Not winning Frankenstein. If you watch Frankenstein. Well, that's like the Gen Z. Jacob Elroy.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. Lordy. Yeah.

[A]

Elordi Hamnet. I heard that one's good. Marty Supreme. I watched nothing. One battle after another. These are all on the Delta flight. I should be watching these.

[B]

I know. By the way, I got diamond too.

[A]

Did you?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Whoa.

[B]

We can go together.

[A]

Here you go. Make your. Make your speech.

[B]

I can't. I wish Delta was also a partner of ours, but that's all. I'll thank them when that happens.

[A]

Listen, if Delta became a partner of this podcast, I would literally.

[B]

I'm trying to make that happen.

[A]

Can you make it. Yeah, make it happen for us. Because also, I'm getting like, burpee as I talk about this.

[B]

So nervous.

[A]

I'm so annoyed at them right now.

[B]

Why?

[A]

Well, the diamond status again, as you mentioned, expectations. You have this expectation. I was sitting across the aisle from a guy who was awarded a gift for getting 2 million miles.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Do you know how many miles is 2 million? Like, it is a lot of flying.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I'm, I'll maybe get to a million by the end of this year. And I've been flying heavy for like.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Your whole marriage.

[B]

Yeah, I know.

[A]

Seven years. So that means that guy has been flying as heavy as me for 14 years or twice as heavy as me for seven years.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

So like. And he was in Delta Comfort. If I get my two millionth mile.

[B]

Yeah. In Delta Comfort.

[A]

Don't announce it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

If I'm in Delta Comfort or put me in first class.

[B]

Right. Like if you're going to announce.

[A]

If you're going to announce it.

[B]

Right.

[A]

I was like kind of distraught.

[B]

Yeah. Not great. Not great.

[A]

But congratulations on Diamond. I'm, I'm the worst person ever. I, I like tell you the worst story about them. You're going to love it. No great way to live. Did they. They're gonna send you the luggage tags. Which is fun. I put it on.

[B]

I got it a while ago. But okay. But no, I didn't get any luggage tags.

[A]

No.

[B]

You know what's interesting about Delta?

[A]

Go for it.

[B]

You get diamond, but you can't. Unless like I flew to Vegas a couple times.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And they don't have Delta 1.

[A]

No, you have.

[B]

But you still don't have access to the lounge. You don't have access. You don't have access to Delta one lounge.

[A]

So the Delta one lounge is only for Delta One flyers, which is the lay down seat that exists in their international, also New York to LA flights. But there is a chance you get Delta 1 on a random flight to Seattle and now you're in that lounge. It is weird that you.

[B]

But they don't have Delta 1. Like, it's not an option. You can't buy Delta 1. This is luxury Lounge right now.

[A]

Yes, this is.

[B]

We're just taking a little quick break, guys. Commercial break for luxury lounge.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But also you can't get into the regular lounge unless you have like Amex or Chase Reserve.

[A]

Yeah. Because they've started limiting who gets into that. Do you have no lounge access for a first class flight to Vegas?

[B]

Yep, but I have an amex, so I used it. Or reserve. Whatever gets you access. But I was like, I literally went up just Just. This is.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

No, I was just like, what's the point?

[A]

No, they. I think that's the hardest part about working for an airline is you do get asked. I would assume that anyone who works for Delta gets asked these existential questions.

[B]

Right, Exactly.

[A]

Like, if this is possible and that's possible, how am I not driving the plane? And they're like. And then.

[B]

No, I knew I was nice to you. I knew it was rhetorical. I was just like, but what is the point?

[A]

They're like, what's the point to any of this? Maybe we should all kill ourselves. Like, I like.

[B]

Well, anyway, anyway, so thank his girlfriend,

[A]

Kylie Jenner, his partner. Partner.

[B]

Is that he says partner.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

I feel about saying partner. Do you say partner with Rusty?

[B]

No, I say husband, but I think they say partner. I talked about this with Sammy on another show. We were like.

[A]

Mention the other show. Oh, we're on the same network.

[B]

I forget what it's called at batches sometimes. I forget my own name.

[A]

It wasn't. It wasn't the vial files.

[B]

No, it wasn't. I do.

[A]

I forget you have a vested interest in this show and that show. You know that, right?

[B]

Okay, what was I talking about?

[A]

So the partner, the.

[B]

He says that. I think. I mean, because he's a. He's a tad pretentious, but besides that,

[A]

I do find Timothy Chalamet pretentious.

[B]

That's his main reputation.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I didn't know. You know, it's funny. What makes it into like, I love him, though. I like that he's. He seems like he's going for it.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

Like he is.

[B]

No shame.

[A]

No shame. But he's very Gen Z in that way. I think Gen Z and you might

[B]

see this good, though.

[C]

He.

[A]

He's good at what he does, but then talks the game. As someone who's good at what he does, like, I think Gen Z is like, very much get the bag generation.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Where it's like, I am not holding back on any of this. There's no class, there's no nothing. Give it to me now. I deserve it. That. Is that what you're seeing from Gen Z when they apply for jobs?

[B]

I'm not going to speak to that because Gen Z, please keep apply. But what do they like?

[A]

What. But as a person who's dealing with Gen Z, because I don't talk to Gen Z, I'm not going to talk to them.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I'll talk to them through this medium, through a podcast. I hope they listen. But I.

[B]

You inspire Gen Z, I would love to be.

[A]

I don't want to inspire anyone. Maybe I'm a warning, you know?

[B]

So you're walking red flag.

[A]

I am walking red flag. You can pre order the book. It is in pre order.

[B]

I'm so happy for you.

[A]

Thank you very much.

[B]

Not in a way that you hate when people say, no, no, I took

[A]

that as a troll. Thank you. The book is like, like the feedback. I. I want you to read it.

[B]

I'm going to.

[A]

I've gotten some really amazing feedback. Everyone says it's funny, which is like the greatest comment of all. Obviously, women specifically have been telling me that. I've read it. They're like, they keep saying it will be so helpful for women to read.

[B]

Well, I can't read. I can't wait to read it.

[A]

That's like a special I got you. Okay, we'll get you one. But for those who aren't Aileen, you can pre order it now. I want to make the New York Times bestseller list.

[B]

You're going to.

[A]

I. Thank you. I'm going to manifest. I. My dad, when I told him, I was like, you know, I could make the New York Times bestseller, he goes. He literally choked. He goes. I was like, it was way more choke than scar. He.

[B]

Your parent content is my favorite.

[A]

It doesn't. Well, the, the new special that's coming out that I made with B is all about my parents.

[B]

I can't wait. I want to spend time with your mom.

[A]

People say that and then.

[B]

No, I do.

[A]

I. I don't know if they want that. You ready?

[B]

I'm a queen. You've.

[A]

You've dealt with.

[B]

I'm. I'm. I'm fully aware. And I've met her.

[A]

You've met her. She loves the betches. She goes, I want to go to dinner.

[B]

I want to go to dinner.

[A]

We should do a dinner next time. They'll never come to New York. You got to go to Florida.

[B]

Okay. I'm going in March.

[A]

Okay. So we'll. We'll connect anyway. Okay.

[B]

Let's. What are we talking about? Who's going to talk about Timothy Chalamet?

[A]

Do you think he's. Do you think Timothee Chalamet? Thanks. Kendall Jenner.

[B]

Kylie. And yes, he's going to thank.

[A]

What's his name? Thanks. What's her face.

[B]

If he wins for best actor, which I think he's going to. I think he's going to thank his partner because he. Kylie. And the reason we were talking about this, our tangents are terrible and it's Mostly my fault.

[A]

That's okay.

[B]

It's because she has kids and I think girlfriend sounds a little too, like, oh, that's, that's our theory. Mine and Sammy's on the At Batches podcast. That's our theory that, like, he just is making it seem a little bit more serious than Gilson.

[A]

Way more mature than I was at that age.

[B]

He's real.

[A]

Well, he's very mature. So some.

[B]

Yeah, that hottie, the big old titties.

[A]

I didn't say that. Okay.

[B]

I love them together, though.

[A]

You do?

[B]

I love them.

[A]

He, he actually, they, they feel like it's real. Well, them together kind of annoys me.

[B]

Why?

[A]

Because he does have the look that Gen Z younger women seem to like these days.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

This, like, unoffensive, I could maybe beat him up type of man.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And I think that is, like, so different than what I was brought up on.

[B]

They love. Loves like Connor Story. They love.

[A]

But Connor Story is long and lean. I'm saying he's jacked. I'm not saying he's not jacked, but he's long and lean. Like, I, I, I don't think Connor Story didn't cut weight to look like that. He put on weight to look like that. I am, Listen, I am a body connoisseur when it comes to men, okay? Men. My, My generation, we like the rock, okay? You know, the rock. Vin Diesel.

[B]

Fine.

[A]

We like these.

[B]

Fine.

[A]

Stallone.

[B]

You're right. You know what I mean? Like, these are all, like, it's Harry Styles vibes.

[A]

Right? And I'm not saying there's, I'm not mad at the men or the women. I'm just more like, oh, time has passed me by, you know? Like, my, the man that I want to be with, the man that I emulated, was not that the one that got chicks was like, yeah, not David Bowie.

[B]

Right.

[A]

It wasn't.

[C]

Wasn't.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, it wasn't Sting. Even though Sting, I, and, And Prince, I did understand their sexuality being coveted by women.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But I was like, that's because they play the guitar now. Any Jim or Joe who looks like a body type of Sting, I don't know.

[B]

Justin Timberlake was never that jacked. And he was like, head of in sync.

[A]

That's fair.

[B]

Nick. What's his face? Carter.

[A]

Nick Carter. But that was always a tight. I don't know. Yeah, I, they're always.

[B]

Boy bands are like, thin and lean, I guess.

[A]

You know, you just, you bring up a fair point.

[B]

Okay, I don't mean to. Shut it down.

[A]

No, that's okay. Shut it down. Okay, listen. When I'm wrong, I'm wrong.

[B]

I'm wrong.

[A]

Thy ticket lady Jennifer of Coolidge.

[B]

Well, many thanks, good sir.

[A]

Here is my Discover card.

[C]

They accept Discover at Renaissance fairs?

[B]

Yeah, they do here. Discover is accepted at the places I love, love to shop. Get it with the times. With the times. You're playing the loot. Yeah. And it sounds pretty good, right?

[A]

Discover is accepted at 99 of places that take credit cards nationwide, based on

[B]

the February 2025 Nielsen report.

[A]

Let's do some dating advice. You ready?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

UUP betches.com JJ and A. I've been dating my boyfriend for about a year. Everything is going great. We get along so well and I'm so lucky that we found each other. Boy, what a wedding speech. It's truly one of the happiest years of our lives as we are connected and aligned on values and humor. There's been a tiny red flag. His mom. Uh oh, that's not a tiny red flag.

[B]

No. I'm really excited for this email though.

[A]

About four months in, I started to notice a few things that make me wonder if he's enmeshed with her. He calls her often, takes her advice on how to decorate his home. Seems very concerned about keeping the peace with her. Her. He also defends her strongly. For example, when I suggested a small change to his apartment, he immediately said, mom helped pick this out. I'm not changing it. I hate when people say mom helped pick this out. No, it's my mom.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. You don't have a family crest.

[A]

Yeah. Like mommy. Yeah. No, that now his mom is coming into town to visit next week. I've heard from a mutual friend that his last relationship didn't go well because his mom and his ex ex didn't get along. He felt that if there was tension with the family, it would be hard to have a successful marriage. Now I'm feeling nervous about two things. Meeting her and hoping she likes me. And also whether I see a long term relationship with someone who seems to put his mom first. I don't think I could ever be the partner who competes with his mom for influence or closeness. Has anyone else dealt with this? Everyone. Since the beginning of time.

[B]

Literally.

[A]

How do you know? How do you know when someone is truly in, met, meshed versus just close with their mom? Would love your thoughts. Aen.

[B]

I love this.

[A]

There are some, there are some YouTube.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Commenters.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Who say that I'm enmeshed with my mom.

[B]

Okay. And do you Know what that means?

[A]

I don't. I honestly. It's one of those words. I don't think they know what it means, to be honest. Like, I think it's one of those words that's become in vogue. I think it's like, I could take

[B]

a guess, but what like enmeshed means. I don't know if this applies to.

[A]

Do we want to look this up so we can get like a better.

[B]

My, my interpretation of when people say, like people are enmeshed with someone, but specifically their moms. It's like when you value their. We were talking about this. Value their opinions more than like your own opinions where they're in your head sometimes good, but sometimes for the bad. And then you go that way, like you're not on. You're still kind of a child in.

[A]

Right.

[B]

In. In the relationship of mom and.

[A]

Right. You have no self determination in a way. So here's a definition. Enmeshed means being in a relationship where boundaries are blurred and people are overly emotionally intertwined, often losing a sense of independence.

[B]

Yeah, that's kind of what I said.

[A]

That's interesting.

[B]

So it's like in this, in this example, I would say he's enmeshed because, like, the fact that he said mom helped pick this out. I'm not changing it. It wasn't like, what do you think?

[A]

Right.

[B]

Well, it's not like, ah. And I kind of like it too.

[A]

Well, let me give some, some empathy to him as the enmeshed one here.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I, I would say if I was one year in with someone that I wasn't like, sure of, they're not gonna have the same say in my life as my mom, who I am positive will be my mom 10 years from now.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Do you know what I mean? Like, I think it's hard to, to determine someone's enmeshed when you're not someone that's.

[B]

That's fair.

[A]

The most important person in their life or they're deciding whether this relationship is something that's their priority. So I, I can understand why, like, someone who's had a relationship end after a year and a half with someone who they were close with their mom. They're like, well, they're enmeshed. So it's like, well, you didn't really have, you know, an investment and you weren't, you know, part of the board of his life. Like, I. If you think of your life as like, you have board members, you know, I have my C suite.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, I have my mom, I have my Dad, I have. And then you would, you know, a seat is open for my future wife. I kind of think of it that way more than I would think of.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

But. And then maybe my future wife becomes, you know, supersedes the other two because I found a more appropriate place for me to get feedback from.

[B]

Right.

[A]

I don't know.

[B]

I think the. The key to that exact example is that you are part of that board meeting, and you are the CEO of that room. And regardless of what. And in board members, they're there to offer advice, but they're not there to drive your decisions. So that's really the biggest difference between enmeshed and, like. And, like, close with. It's like, if my mom tells me something, I don't go immediately do it, because then mom, CEO.

[A]

Right. And here's the other thing. Like, I was on the phone with my dad before I got here. I'm gonna hire a PR person.

[B]

Oh, okay.

[A]

Okay. Thanks. That was a judgy. How do you feel about that? Well, that's good. I think it's worthwhile right now.

[B]

Sorry, I just put my business hat on.

[A]

Is that how you talk to your employees, Aileen?

[B]

Oh, okay. No, it's more like. Tell me more.

[A]

Well, the plan was, because I have the book coming out in June and then coming out in September, I was like, if I'm going to invest money, and for those that don't know, PR is a lot of money, and it's an investment.

[B]

There's a lot of bad PR people.

[A]

That's the other thing. And it's a lot of money that you don't know Will, the. The chances of it paying off are kind of. You have to convince yourself that it paid off. Sometimes you have to.

[B]

You have to do a lot of work for it to pay off.

[A]

Right. So that being the case, my dad's saying to me, you know, telling me that I should. You know, how I should pay for it and giving his advice. And I hear him and I go, okay. And I say yes to him. I go, yeah, I. I hear you. And I will do that.

[B]

Okay. Yeah.

[A]

Will I do that? I don't know. I took it under advisement.

[B]

Sure. Yeah.

[A]

But I was like, I hear what he's saying. I hear why he's saying it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But I'm not going to sit there. Like, something I noticed in her email, and I would love to hear your point of view on. And it comes to. With my dad or my mom, I would say yes to them, and then I would think about it. Yeah. I. I don't say yes and then go act on that. Yes. Yeah, I'm gonna think about it, but I'm gonna get them to shut the up first.

[B]

Exactly. So when she say yes to placate them not to, like, agree.

[A]

Right. And then I'll put it on and. And not that I don't value the opinion, but let me say yes.

[B]

And then that's how you manage them.

[A]

Right. So. But when she says, he calls her often, takes her advice on how to decorate his home, and seems very concerned about keeping the peace with her. See, his concern about keeping the peace with his mom, to me is very male. Based on my experience with this show.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

A lot of the women, Women that I've dated, it seems normal for them to have it out with a mom. Like, even their own mom. Like mothers and daughters. I've witnessed those fights and I've been like. Like, I can't believe it.

[B]

It Even.

[A]

A lot of women that write in friend breakups. I would never have a friend breakup. I would. It seems that there is some sort of. It seems that, like, for women, that these types of interactions and these types of arguments with parents in their lives are more normal than it seems that for the men, good or bad.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because that might be just communicating. But I'm just saying, when I said that is outside, I am going to say, yup, you're exactly right, dad. And then I'm gonna go and make my own decision based on that. Well, yeah, but it does seem like, how do you handle. Do you see that from Rusty?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Do you see that your husband and his mom. He's a keep the peace. Does he resemble that? Does he. And do you have moments where you're like, I gotta handle her.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Differently or. Than I would handle my own mom, because my own mom, I can be like, you know, mom, you know, go, go yourself. I don't know. Yeah. Obviously you would never say that to my mom, but I'm saying the way you would. Do you understand what I'm saying?

[B]

Absolutely. Yeah. I think it just depends on, like, what you value and, like, whether or not you want to have. Maintain a relationship with your parents or not. Like, some people, like, have that as an option for them and they say, like, I. I'd rather create boundaries and I don't want them in my life. So I'm willing to, like, sort of say everything. And I think, like, everybody has is like, it's on a spectrum of what they're willing to take from their parents or not based on what they value if they want the closeness or not, whatever it is. In this example, it seems like the mom has a big personality, right?

[C]

Sure.

[A]

Even based on we. So it does feel like based on this email, a, you know, King Kong is rumbling towards this home and you can hear the footsteps in the background. Yeah.

[B]

My mom has, is a strong willed woman. She's from the Soviet Union.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And she's a doctor, so God complex. And she is opinionated and I love her to death. And then also Rusty's mom, she's a mom of three boys and she's the only woman like in, she's the matriarch of the family.

[A]

That's a big thing.

[B]

It's a big thing.

[A]

Only woman, never been challenged by another woman.

[B]

Correct. And, but, but I found it extremely important to like, I love Rusty and I wanted to be like, to keep the peace. I don't, I didn't want to like ruffle feathers. I know that his relationship with her was really important. He's very family oriented and that's what I like about him. Right. And therefore, if there was like something like this I don't know about, like, mom, help pick this out. I'm not changing it. I'd be like, all right, well, I'm not touching that.

[A]

Right.

[B]

But I don't think that I would like make a big stink about anything unless it's so big. Do you know what I mean? So I, I, I get that. I think, like, everybody just has like a different amount of shit meter of like how much they're willing to take from their parents. Like, you want to keep the peace with your parents because they're very opinionated.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And you know, like, I'm not dealing with this right now.

[A]

I have, it's not worth dealing with. I would say yes, because they also don't care.

[B]

Right. And it's just their personality. You're not going to change their personality. And what is more important to you is having a relationship with them over arguing with them. In this one, you're picking your battles.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And I think that is what life is with dealing with personalities.

[A]

You said. So Rusty being one of three boys.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

How did you, how'd you play it with his mom? Well, I think first meeting. Well, you knew her from growing up.

[B]

I, Yeah, I had. She's a, she's a mom for my town, so I kind of get it. So I knew it was respect.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And I played it like, I'm just the nice girlfriend, which I am most times, unless you don't thank me in Your Oscar speech.

[A]

Do you have a moment? What was the first moment you guys had any headbutting?

[B]

I can't remember. I really can't. We've definitely had our fair share. I just can't remember. And if we do, I just will say, like. Like I'll say it in a very non confrontational way. Not because I'm not. Not non confrontational. It's just not worth it to me.

[A]

What's the. What's something that's important to her?

[B]

There's some spending time with her sons and, and the grandkids, our grandchildren.

[A]

Okay, so it's a holiday. Your mom wants you to come over to her house.

[B]

She's.

[A]

She wants the, the, the boys to come over to her house. How would you handle that?

[B]

She wins.

[A]

She wins.

[B]

I just. It's not worth it to me. Right.

[A]

So you would say to your mom,

[B]

mom, well, my bitch doesn't shut up about me. My mom doesn't. My mom doesn't. I have a very small family on my side, and my parents are divorced. And so, like. And his mom always includes my family.

[A]

Okay. So.

[B]

And so it's her thing. That's what she values. She values Thanksgiving. And I'm like, that is yours. Like, I will not touch it. I told her I was like, I'll call it when you no longer want to host, but you tell me when that I can do that. It's very much like, I. I know it's important to her again, and I just value that. That.

[A]

Does Rusty's brothers, are they married?

[B]

Yeah, everybody's married.

[A]

And do they get. Do you get along with the other wives?

[B]

Very much. And how do they.

[A]

Do they. Do they have differing levels of handling?

[B]

Everybody is their own person.

[A]

So. So they're like, you know, they, they're realizing they know the same thing about the mom, too, that she wants to be with her boys. Yeah, but.

[B]

And she's vocal about that. And I think that we all. That's. That's what we signed up for, I think. But that's also like, part of the appeal of Rusty was his. He's very much like, when you see him on his own, one of the things I noticed was, like, when he's on his own, he's like Rusty. And then like, when you see him with his brothers and his family. Oh, this is a puzzle that just came together.

[A]

This is a big. I think this is something that I've tried to say.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Is like. I think families are like, like a bunch of pieces of gum that have been smushed together and however they get smushed. Not like that, I don't think. I think this is, like, a lot boys in a family where it's like,

[B]

on, like, the culture of your family that. I don't mean, like, I don't mean, like, your culture, like, the culture of your. The way you grew up and the way, like, spend time.

[A]

Right. I have girls that, like, your parents, like, they're like, they give you at every turn. I'm like, yeah. I'm like, that's kind of how it is. I give them where I can.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I'm not like, walking in, like, it isn't Jared the performer walking in.

[B]

Right.

[A]

I'm very much, you know, way more laid back on that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And no, I, I, it's hard to. If I, I think you gotta value the way it came together. If it works. If it doesn't work. And this can go in unhealthy directions.

[B]

Totally.

[A]

Yeah. That's a different thing. So let's play a game.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Mama Drama game. Negotiate or no?

[B]

Nope.

[A]

So that means your mother in law wants to do something.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Do you negotiate it or do you just walk away? Nope. I'll let this be.

[B]

I'll let this go. Okay.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

So you're negotiating. If you what, want your. If you're.

[A]

You engage in this.

[B]

You engage and you're like, all right, I'm standing my ground for this and. No.

[A]

Stand your ground or do you walk away?

[B]

Got it, got it, got it.

[A]

So you're. It's Christmas time. It's the holiday time. You love to throw the holiday holidays. Your mother in law also loves to throw the holidays. Do you negotiate or do you fold it up?

[B]

Depends how big my family is. If I, I would. If, if it's really important to me, I'll negotiate. But I don't give a. So I would say no.

[A]

She posts photos of your child after you've said no. Social media saying, but I only have 50 friends on Instagram.

[B]

I'm not negotiating. I'm. I'm. You're saying, take it down.

[A]

Take it down.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That's my child. No way.

[B]

That's my child. No way. Actually, no, I wouldn't do it. I go tell my husband, because this is his mom to go and take it down. This is not my battle to fight.

[A]

Right. Okay, well, that's a, That's a good way to go. So you're gonna negotiate through your intermediary,

[B]

and if he doesn't do it, he's in trouble.

[A]

She calls my husband every day, even on vacations.

[B]

Okay, Jared, I. That's fine.

[A]

That's why that. Right. I don't think that's a big deal.

[B]

Well, yeah, it's just. Okay. They're close.

[A]

She asked to be in the room for marital arguments to mediate so bad.

[B]

That's a. That's a. Negotiate.

[A]

Negotiate. Going to get her or kick her

[B]

out of the room.

[A]

She excludes me from family photos, insisting on one with just her, her son, and the grandkids.

[B]

If there's also one with you. Yeah, in it, then fine. But if you're not in any. Then negotiate.

[A]

This was something that they got on oversharing.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I, like, jaw dropped. It was like, kind of a crazy if.

[B]

But again, this is one of those things. Like, I would expect my husband to be like, whoa, right? What are you doing?

[A]

Well, that is funny that it's like, this isn't a mom fight. This is a husband fight.

[B]

Oh. It almost always has to be like. That's what I would say is like. Like, I don't. Don't tarnish your personal relationship unless it's something that. That you speak with your husband about it and they're like. Or your partner, and they're like, I. I just can't do it. Can you please do this for me? Then you'll go.

[A]

Is a husband not going to bat for you to their mom? Reason enough to go to, like, couples therapy? Reason enough to, oh, yeah, end a relationship.

[B]

I don't know about end, but definitely first go to couples therapy.

[A]

She wants to be in the delivery room because it's her first grandbaby.

[B]

Well, my mom's an OB gyn and she was in the delivery room.

[A]

Did she deliver it?

[B]

Well, when I gave birth to my first child, it was like, during COVID and I was really scared, and she worked at that hospital, and I was like, can you please come home? Make sure we have, like, all the right nurses. And during that time, and I talked about this on Betcha's Moms when I did that podcast, that's why my birth story, they were, like, really understaffed. And there was a point when my mom was like, there no nurses. Nobody was there. And she was the one. Like, my husband was like, Rusty was holding, making me, like, holding me at the top. And she was like, push. It was real. And so in that moment, I was like, thank God my mom is here. But if my mom was in an OB gyn, then, no, I don't want them there.

[A]

Right. You can only be in the way.

[B]

Then I'm Then I'm.

[A]

She's an added bonus.

[B]

She was an added bonus. I was like, instead of a doula.

[A]

Right. Is that weird to have your mom in the room for?

[B]

I didn't think so. Because. I wouldn't think so because she was a doctor.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And I was like, you're gonna make like you have the highest standards. As I said, my mother is what she's like. She has high standards. So she'll make sure that everybody is in place.

[A]

Right. And, you know, and she'll be my advocate. Right. And that's the thing. She's gonna be the one.

[B]

People hire people for that. That's what doulas are.

[A]

Oh, I didn't know that.

[B]

But it.

[A]

Yeah, I thought doula was like a fun name for like.

[B]

Like a babysitter. No, they're like, you're your hospital advocate. Like, they're there. They know what to expect. You. You don't if it's your first. So they're there to basically, like, this is normal to explain to you because when you're there, nobody explains anything to you. They're like, I don't know.

[A]

Wow. I mean, you, like, bring in Kareem Abdullah Jabbar. Close your eyes.

[B]

Exhale. Feel your body relax and let go of whatever you're carrying today. Well, I'm letting go of the worry that I wouldn't get my new contacts in time for this class. I got them delivered free from 1-800-contacts. Oh, my gosh, they're so fast.

[A]

And breathe.

[B]

Oh, sorry. I almost couldn't breathe when I saw the discount they gave me on my first order. Oh, sorry. Namaste. Visit 1-800-contacts.com today to save on your first order. 1-800-contacts.

[A]

This episode is brought to you by Athletic Brewing Company. No matter how you do game day, on the couch, in the crowd, or manning the snack table, Athletic Brewing fits right in with a full lineup of non alcoholic beer styles you can enjoy. Bold flavors all game long. No hangovers, no buzz, no subbing out for water. In the second half, stock the fridge for tip off with a variety of non alcoholic craft styles. Available at your local grocery store store or online@athletic brewing.com near beer fit for all times. All right, let's play a petty or prudent. You're okay. So petty or prudent, you end something with someone and then you do something. Okay, Is it petty or are you being prudent?

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Okay, you're gonna read it.

[B]

Okay. Yay. Hey. J and J. N A N. A feather. Feather. I'll jump right in. I'm 33, female. I live in a big city on the west coast and have been going to a trail for the last three months. It's become one of my favorite parts of the weekend and I genuinely love it. I'm writing because my ex, 34, male, showed up at the Saturday morning Run Club this week. Four contacts. We dated for three years, lived together and broke up six months ago. The club has multiple runs each week and I know he normally goes on Wednesdays. I was fine with that and assumed we'd respect each other's space. Apparently not. Afterward, I sent him a text and got a response that left me wondering, is he being petty or am I overreacting? On one hand it felt like an intrusion, but on the the other, he said he just wanted to join a run with people he knows and wasn't trying to start anything. Maybe he's being prudent, keeping up friendships and staying active rather than trying to meddle. Still, I ended up blocking his number after a weird string of texts where it felt like he was inserting himself back into my life. Was that overkill? A trail loving batch who just wants to be left alone. Should we read the text?

[A]

Let's read the text. You be her, I'll be him.

[B]

Okay. Hey. I've been going to Run Club on Saturday for three months now. It's become a really fun slash safe place for me and I've made a lot of friends. It's one of my favorite parts of my week. I'd really appreciate if you gave me this one. Thanks. It's like a divorce. I mean, who gets custody of the Run Club on Saturdays only?

[A]

I think. Listen. Six months to. She's been going for six months. Yeah, since the breakup. Hey, I've been running with Run Club since October and have a lot of friends there as well. I heard you started going Saturdays, so gave it to the six month mark so it'd be a bit easier to occupy the same space. I've consulted a lot of people and unfortunately the trail Run Running community is too small to split. But Run Club is big enough for both of us. I understand you're feeling uncomfortable, but it will get easier over time. I'm sorry, but that sounded very stern principle in a 19.

[B]

I feel like that's creepy thing to say. It will get easier over time.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't like the sound of that. I don't like very bad guy in a movie. Like it's very like, like. Like I said, like it feels very much like we're watching a black and white movie. It's like one day you'll understand, Missy, why the Run Club? Totally. Right? Like, that's the tone of it.

[B]

It's a little scary.

[A]

One day, little lady, you will understand why Run Club is fit for all

[B]

of us to stay fit over time.

[A]

Over time. I don't like the tone at all.

[B]

I don't. And there's a different way to say it too. Like you can get that message through in a different way. And I think it shows a lot about him also.

[A]

I mean. Okay. Other weird text I got two weeks ago. Second text references a Saturday event. This was a Park Day hosted by mutual friends, not the Run Club. He did not warn me that he'd be showing up to the Run Club. And then. This is his text. This is his weird text. Hey, no need to respond, but heard through the grapevine you're seeing someone new. Just wanted you to know that I know. So it isn't awkward if and when we cross paths. I'm going on Saturday. Might see you there. Hope you're doing well.

[B]

He hears a lot about her.

[A]

Yeah, I. I think he said it

[B]

here and he said it in the first text message. I heard you started doing Saturdays, so I gave it to the six month mark. Like, this is a calculated dude.

[A]

He's being prudent about his pettiness, you know, isn't that. You know what I mean? Like he. He is being like that. You and I are hitting on the same thing. Yeah, because when I see that he has consulting people without her, he could have very easily. Or the more difficult path is. The more correct path, the more difficult path is. Hey, I'd really like to start going to the Run Club on Saturday. I wanted to talk with you. It's been six months. Yeah, his six month point is fine if made to her. I just want to see how you're feeling about it. I would be okay. But if you tell me that that's a space that you want for yourself, I'll have to deal with that. And I'll find a different place to run or go on a different day. Normal I that. But because that's a difficult text for him to send. He took the easy route out, but he's saying it as if he's made

[B]

the executive decision that he is. That she is comfortable and if she's not, she will be. But this is where I'm gonna be. And if ball's in your court, run from this. I would. Speaking of running, I would run from this. This.

[A]

This person, he doesn't have to ask her for permission.

[B]

I agree.

[A]

But it is.

[B]

But it is weird.

[A]

It's respectful to discuss this with her again. Like you said, this feels like a divorce. And they're sharing custody of the run club. When you break up with someone, you do share some custody of some weird things. Like a run club, like maybe a dog. Like the home that you guys shared, the places you go hang out, the bar you go to, your friend.

[B]

Group. Group.

[A]

Those are things that do have to be divvied up. And to just say, it's my bat, my ball, I'm going to the run club. Like, I don't really.

[B]

It's clear he doesn't give a. And it's petty. But then he's. It seems it's. It's very petty. It's very petty, but also, like, with a twinge of.

[C]

Of.

[B]

Of controlly controlling man.

[A]

Right? Or I. I guess, like, it's funny to. He doesn't want to be controlled. So now he's controlling.

[B]

Huh?

[A]

Like, it's weird because then he's also

[B]

like, she's seeing somebody new, but he's saying, don't worry. It's not weird for. For you.

[A]

Right?

[B]

Don't worry. It won't be weird. Like, she's like, oh, well, clearly you just made it weird. So if I were her, I'd be like, all right, this is. This is like, this is the decision I have to make. Either keep having to spend time with this man without. Or. Or just cut it.

[A]

I mean, I would write back to this message, hey, I'm gonna still go on Saturdays. I would be less upset if you would text me before to discuss this just because.

[B]

But he doesn't care about her feelings.

[A]

Well, that's the thing. If anything, this has been a show that like. Like, this text to me is like, you don't care about how.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

And I do care about how you feel in a way that I would care about any ex that I've cared about.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And you just kind of railroaded me.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. I. I mean, that's the one thing to write. I. I do think he's being petty. This is annoying.

[B]

Agreed.

[A]

It's annoying because it's a fixable thing when you write a text like that. You wrote that for a specific reason, to have no one answer you back.

[B]

It's also so weird. He goes, I've consulted a lot of people, and unfortunately, the trail running club community is too small to split. Like, what

[A]

if that's the case? Then you can talk to me about that.

[B]

Right, right.

[A]

Let's do another email. Yeah, let's do an advice email. You ready?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

My husband and I have been married five years, have two kids three and seven months. Three and oh, three years old. I was gonna.

[B]

Three and seven months. Yeah.

[A]

I was like how did that happen? We have another twibbling on our hand. Three years and seven months. We're planning on a third. We both work full time. He's a senior product manager in tech making about 180000 with bonus. I'm a policy analyst for the state making about 150k. I'm on track for a promotion to senior analyst next year. I've had Exceeds reviews, I'm leading to the high visibility projects and my director has been clear I'm being positioned for that next step. As for the child care, we have our children in daycare. Daycare for two kids is about 3,000amonth. With the third it would be closer to 4, 500. We could survive on one income but it would mean scaling back in savings and lifestyle. The bigger issue isn't just math, it's philosophy. For the past month my husband has been pushing that I should quit and stay home until the kids are in school. He frames it as the right thing to do. He believes kids are better off with a mom at home and that careers are replaceable. But these years aren't. He said you'll never regret choosing family over work. Was he the guy from the last text? What's hard is that he doesn't see my career as equally important. He says that it's just a season and I can always go back. But stepping off a promotion track I've worked for years towards doesn't feel temporary. If choosing family means one of us sacrifice career growth, why is that automatically me? Is this a fundamental values difference about gender roles and what putting family first means or am I too attached to my career? Would love your thoughts. Aileen, how do you feel about this one? This is a tough one.

[B]

There was like an article in New York Times or maybe somewhere else that it talked about like the reason why there's a gender pay gap is this exact example happens to so many people where two to a a couple who are on the same track decide to have children and the default is that the the mom stays home because they're making the cost of an of child care is more than than they make so they jump off and then when they decided to go back they're way lower and so there's a massive Gap. And this happens very, very often. It sucks. I think what this. What needs to happen here is they need to discuss like she needs to basically tell him that my career is really important to me and actually it is not temporary. I think it's fair for him to say that the years aren't replaceable. That is 100% true. But neither the years of the kids lives. Of the kids lives. It's 100% true.

[A]

Like, I don't think it's fair to say that it's true, but I don't think it's fair.

[B]

Like it's not for him to ask her of that, but it's fair to say together. Hey, this is a moment for us to discuss. We know both know that these years are not replaceable.

[A]

The way you're saying it is not the way he. She's writing.

[B]

Agreed.

[A]

Okay. Because I think that's like my biggest problem with the email. It's not like to me, one, leaving their job to take care of the kids in a vacuum. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

We can never see three years old again.

[B]

Right.

[A]

That's.

[B]

I think that's, that's the fact. That's what I'm saying is that's a fact. That's fair.

[A]

Right.

[B]

What's not fair is he's just not considering her in this. In this pushing of his own agenda or opinion or his values. That. Which is very traditional. Which is again, fine. If that was a discussion you guys had in the past, clearly it was not. So they need to come and she needs to tell him. Well, actually don't agree. And how can we make this work if he keeps pushing it, then they're gonna be at an impasse.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And they shouldn't have that third kid.

[A]

The thing that I don't know about myself.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That I. In this scenario, I don't know how I would feel like this is also. There's a lot of ego in this too. Like, I don't know how I would feel in a relationship where, you know, I don't know how I feel in this scenario.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, a lot of times when I give talk about these emails, I go, how would I feel? I just know that, like.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I don't know if I would hope that in this scenario, it seems like he's acting as if he's the CEO and she's like the chief family officer.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And it's like, that's not how this relationship seems to be seen from her end.

[B]

Agreed.

[A]

Right.

[B]

To her, that they're equals.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And he's Saying basically that his job is more important. It really works for a lot of people. Where the. When the woman is basically quits her job after going on maternity leave to stay home. It happens when like the. The mom doesn't. She's like down, right? She's like, you know what? I don't really like that my career that much. And I prefer to be with my children.

[A]

Right.

[B]

That is fine. That happens all the time. Like, I live in the suburbs and I meet every. Like so many moms that are like that. This is different because she's saying, like, I'm working so hard for this. I'm about to get promoted. I may more. May start to make more money than you.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Why am I being the one. Why is it being the mom is more. Why is this like a decision you just decided like without me?

[A]

I think two things need to be taken out of this discussion.

[B]

Okay, what?

[A]

One, the morality. The. If we're gonna miss three, you never get these years back. I think it's like a morality play from him.

[B]

Like a guilt.

[A]

That's a guilt. He's trying to make her feel badly.

[B]

Right. So why can't he quit?

[A]

Right? Exactly.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I think also the money needs to be taken out of it. The I might make more than you. I think you take away the money and you make it about. And again, I'm simplifying in a way

[B]

because I agree with you.

[A]

But I think the money and the. And the morality are kind of similar things. Hey, I'm about to make more money than you, you loser. Is not really a helpful.

[B]

That's what I would say.

[A]

Right. I just.

[B]

Like I said, I fight like an animal. I meant it.

[A]

Right. That's an animalistic way to go at it. You're about to make. You fucking pussy. Are about to make less than me. And I'm a woman and you're a man. You should be making more than me, you loser.

[B]

No, that's not what we were saying.

[A]

But that's the way he thinks. Well, that's why. That's what I'm saying. I'm like. He has a emotional state in this too.

[B]

I agree.

[A]

So if I were them, I would do this based on that. Where do I find value? Like she is saying, I find a lot of personal value out of going to work every day.

[C]

Day.

[A]

I find so much personal value that the I. I need to be the best mother I can be. I need to get child care. Because when I get to be with my kids, I'm going to be this like, exceptional Role model and happier person. Happy parents, happy kids, in my opinion. I don't know. I don't have kids, so anyone could ever could say that to me. But I'm saying if you're. I believe that if I'm happy, the kids will be happy. You're going to be happy, happy. We're all going to be happy. Where I find happiness is this progression in my job that I am currently on this track.

[B]

I'm on exceeding expectations for her. It's important that she does well.

[A]

Right. And he might say, I also find a lot of personal value and happiness and I get my ego inflated by going into the office every day and doing as well as I'm doing. And then you go, okay, decision made.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

We are the happiest couple we can be while also paying for. And now you bring in the money.

[B]

Right.

[A]

We're also paying for. And we will find a way to get these years in the way we need to get them our way.

[B]

Like, exactly. No, I think you were so right. That was very wise.

[A]

Right?

[B]

Very wise.

[A]

Thank you. I think this is why you brought me into betches. Yes, wise old.

[B]

Very wise. Because I think she's talking about two things. She talks about the cost of child care and their salaries. But then she also talks about his morals about the mom should be right with the kids. So it's like one. Which one is it? Is it that child care cost costs more than your salary or is it that the time is what you're trying to have so they need to pinpoint with what's the actual issue that they're solving for.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And then solve for it. You're totally right. Nobody is a loser for making less.

[A]

Well, this is. But I guess like the way if I was a man trying to make a woman feel bad, I'd be like, I would do what he's doing.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, I'm just saying, like I would guilt her into saying, you're never going to get these years back. You don't want to see what a three.

[B]

Read this. I started to feel guilty for being a working mom.

[A]

It's up. If a woman wanted to make a guy feel bad, she would go, well, you make less money. In the same way, it would be the same knife, you know, being used. So it's like, let's take away both of those weapons.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And. And stick to the.

[B]

Look at you. This is. You're straight couples therapizing right now.

[A]

I think I could do it. I don't even need a degree. I've never Even been to therapy.

[B]

It's really good.

[A]

Look at me.

[B]

They just need to talk about their values, right?

[A]

This guy, this enmeshed guy knows what he's talking about. Holy. Let's do another email.

[B]

Sometimes it's worth it.

[A]

We're going to do an Icky or picky. Now that we've realized I'm a genius, I'll read it.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

We are geniuses. We can't do it together as a family.

[B]

Together. I. J and J and A. I need an icky or picky ruling.

[A]

Now. The rules for this game is you're dating someone, you get the ick. Are you valid in your ick, or are you being a little picky? Go ahead.

[B]

Our first date was coffee and a walk. The second was dinner. About five minutes after we sat down, he said very seriously, just so you know, I have a strict no phones at the table rule. At first. At first, I thought, loser. Fucking loser.

[A]

Well, what would I do? What will I do when you get boring?

[B]

At first, I thought he was joking. He wasn't. He explained that he believes phones ruin connection and that when he's out to dinner, he expects full presence.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

Hold on, hold on. He said in his family growing up, phones were banned at the table. And he carries that rule into adulthood. To be clear, I'm not glued to my phone. I agree it's rude to scroll during dinner, but this felt formal, like I was being briefed on policy. It was date two. We're basically strangers. What if we want to look something up? Check the weather, show each other something relevant? I think what icked me out wasn't the idea itself. It was that it was presented as a rule, not a conversation or a mutual agreement. Is this green flag? He values connection or red flag? Welcome to my rule book. Icky or picky? We have a theme going on with these.

[A]

Quite a theme. I mean, I have the ick.

[B]

I have the, like, the chills, Right? I need to go, right?

[A]

This guy. Grade A loser. Here's.

[B]

Here's the creepy.

[A]

It's. It's creepy.

[B]

Mom says no phones, right?

[A]

And at my table, we don't have the phone out. And we eat our vegetables.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, like, I. I think this is a great example of. Of. I am turned off by anyone who says versus does. Like you saying expectations. But he's saying for, like, behavior, right? And. But it's like saying who I am before being who I am. Like, if you don't use the phone at dinner and you value someone who doesn't Use the phone at dinner. All right, let's have dinner and let's see how it goes.

[B]

Show, not tell.

[A]

Right? Let's, let's, let's play it out and then you can go home and say, say, boy, that was on their phone the whole time. I don't really, didn't really have a good time because they were on their phone. I. And for that reason, I'm out. Yeah, like, don't come at me with your chastising.

[B]

She's gonna go in a chokey if she goes on the phone. It's up.

[A]

I, I hate this because there is a reason to go on the phone. Just like you said, it might come up. Oh, what'd you say? I gotta look up enmeshed. Yeah, I gotta see what that means. See if I'm enmeshed with my mom.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, like I, I just, it's icky.

[B]

It's so icky and it's just like the biggest red flag. Not that this is the game, but it's the biggest red flag in like what's to come.

[A]

Right?

[B]

Like, do you think this is his only rule?

[A]

Date two, Just so you know, he's

[B]

got like, you're going to go back to his home and he's going to have his own personal constitution and he's going to open it up while you're taking your clothes off.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And it's going to be the woman

[A]

goes down on the man in my parents house. No, no, no. Men do not go down on women. Sorry, we have rules here. Yeah, it's horrible. Aileen, thank you so much. Such a pleasure to have you back on the UW podcast.

[B]

It's only been eight years.

[A]

Eight years. We'll have you back eight years from now.

[B]

I'll see you.

[A]

We'll see you then. Everyone follow Aileen for her CEO journey.

[B]

Oh, thank you.

[A]

It is always a pleasure. This comes out out March 11th. I'm on the road. If you're listening this deep into the show, that means you like the show. That means you enjoyed the discussion we had here. That means you like the vibe. You'll love the five of my vibe of my show. I am going to be in la, Los Angeles. I'm also going to be in Salt Lake city, Utah, Tempe, Arizona. Come to a show jaredfree.com there's more shows always being added to the calendar. Aileen is the founder CEO of Batches. We want you to follow Batches and everything they do at Batches is the podcast that Aileen co hosts also at Aileen. And if you want to hear from Jordana Abraham Marinelli, she is on our benefits episode giving us updates on maternity leave. If you want to hear from Jordana and I talk about our lives in a more personal way. Also, you get the episodes a day early. No ads go hit the link in the bio for the U Up with Benefits. Five bucks a month. That's a pretty good deal.

[B]

It is. That's a great deal.

[A]

And that money goes towards production of the show. That makes this show as great as it always is. So make sure you subscribe to you up with Benefits. Alien.

[C]

Such a pleasure.

[B]

This was such a pleasure.

[A]

A family episode.

[B]

We did it back next week.

[A]

Boom.