What Are the Rules of an Open Relationship? ft Ashley Gavin

Summary

U Up? Podcast Episode Summary

Episode: What Are the Rules of an Open Relationship? ft Ashley Gavin
Date: March 20, 2026
Hosts: Jared Freid
Guest: Ashley Gavin

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Episode Overview

This episode of U Up? features comedian and podcaster Ashley Gavin as a co-host, joining Jared Freid for a candid, hilarious, and insightful discussion about dating, relationships, and above all, the nuances of open relationships. Ashley shares her personal experience navigating an open relationship, the rules she's established with her partner, and how transparency and communication set the tone. The episode also responds to listener emails about bisexuality and relationship double standards, along with engaging rounds of crowd-favorite dating games like Red Flag or Dealbreaker and Icky or Picky.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Ashley’s Stand-Up, Audience Dynamics, & Identity (01:13–06:00)

• Ashley discusses her stand-up career and the unique community at her live shows, where she regularly invites audience participation and builds an energetic, welcoming environment.
• Notably, Ashley attracts a diverse following, including bisexual women who sometimes experience new realizations about their sexuality at her shows.

Memorable Moment:
Ashley: "It feels like there's a moment in the show where you're like, all right, let me hear from you people ... They bring signs, they bring stories" (03:21).

2. Lesbian/ Straight Male Friendship Dynamics (05:25–07:45)

• Jared and Ashley reflect on the under-discussed friendship between straight men and lesbian women, challenging stereotypes and celebrating platonic relationships across orientations.
• Ashley notes the pride straight women take in gay male friends and wishes the same openness existed for straight men befriending lesbians.

3. Ashley on Open Relationships: Structure & Rationale (07:54–12:22)

• Ashley reveals she's in an open relationship with her girlfriend, who is bisexual. They allow each other to have sexual encounters with others but not romantic relationships.
• She emphasizes clear rules, mutual consent, and regular check-ins as crucial for maintaining trust and preventing complications.
• Ashley also discusses how openness simplifies things, reducing games and ambiguity.
• The couple is transparent about hookups and even has monthly check-ins about their open arrangement.

Notable Quote:
Ashley: "We both can hook up with other people, but we can't do, like, relationships with other people" (08:33).

4. Navigating Jealousy, Boundaries, and Family Planning (11:06–13:13)

• The conversation addresses whether the open relationship can or should continue if they have children, acknowledging the need to consider a child’s understanding and consent (even if indirect).
• Ashley notes that many parents and married people reach out privately to share their own non-monogamous arrangements.

Memorable Quote:
Ashley: "When you have a family, there’s now another person who is not consenting" (11:21).

5. Safety, Gender, and Hookup Culture (14:10–16:07)

• Ashley highlights the difference in safety and stigma for women navigating casual sex: straight women often face judgment and real dangers, while lesbian encounters are generally less risky.
• She recounts a story of asking a hookup to put her knife in the hotel safe, illustrating unique dating hazards.

Quote:
Jared: "You know, you're not inviting a grizzly bear over" (14:25)
Ashley: "It's a fair fight if there's gonna be a fight" (14:27)

6. The Rules and Realities—Transparency in Open Relationships (19:33–21:17)

• Jared asks if fights ever break out about their arrangement. Ashley says she and her girlfriend rarely argue, instead relying on monthly, honesty-driven conversations to address feelings and boundaries.
• They agree it's easier to maintain trust when the rules are clearly defined versus the ambiguity in monogamous relationships.

Notable Quote:
Ashley: "I think it’s easier to cheat when you just don’t have an established idea of what cheating means" (20:15).

7. Listener Email: Bisexuality, Shame, & Partner Insecurity (22:45–28:29)

• A listener asks if her boyfriend’s harsh response to her past same-sex kiss is a red flag or dealbreaker.
• Ashley and Jared dissect the implied shame and double standards, affirming that the listener is valid in her bisexual curiosity and criticizing the boyfriend's lack of empathy.
• The consensus: his behavior is a clear dealbreaker.

Quote:
Ashley: "Dear listener, you are bisexual. Okay, just stop trying to make caveats" (24:00).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Open Relationships & Simplicity:
  Ashley: "When everything’s out, it makes it so easy ... There’s no games." (10:15)

• On Transparency Over Rule-Breaking:
  Ashley: "I would be more upset if you lied about something rather than if you broke the rules and told me." (20:49)

• On Bi-curiosity & Shame:
  Ashley: "There’s so much shame in this, right? ... It is okay for you to be bi. Like, whatever." (24:15)

• On Navigating Adult Life & Roommates:
  Jared: "If you were to say anyone with a roommate is undateable after the age of 35, I would say that you are living by another time’s standards." (38:10)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Ashley Introduced, Show Energy, Stand-up Comedy: 01:13–04:50
• Audience Stories, Bisexual Realizations, Community Feel: 04:51–06:00
• Straight Men & Lesbian Friendships: 05:25–07:45
• Open Relationships: How They Work, Rules, and Logistics: 07:54–12:22
• Jealousy, Kid Concerns, Secrecy: 11:06–13:13
• On-the-Road Hookups and Safety: 13:27–16:08
• Red Flag/Dealbreaker Game — No Arguments, Monthly Check-Ins: 19:33–21:17
• Listener Email: Bisexual Experience & Boyfriend Reactions: 22:45–28:29
• Best Cities for Meeting Women, Hookup Anecdotes: 29:12–31:09
• Icky or Picky Game — Roommates and Adult Lifestyles: 32:06–39:39

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Dating Games & Listener Advice

Red Flag or Dealbreaker:

• Explored transparency, fairness, and emotional maturity in response to relationship dilemmas.

Icky or Picky (32:06–39:39):

• Discussed adult roommates from a non-judgmental, context-driven perspective.
• Stressed the importance of understanding generational differences, economic realities, and personal values over arbitrary age-based standards.

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Overall Tone & Takeaways

• The episode is frank, playful, and supportive, peppered with Ashley’s sharp wit and both hosts’ honest insights.
• The conversation champions the necessity of communication, self-awareness, and non-judgment in modern relationships.
• Ashley’s candid sharing of her open relationship offers valuable lessons on boundaries, trust, and individual growth.
• The hosts encourage listeners to be less rigid about norms—whether it’s sexual orientation, relationship models, or lifestyle choices like living with a roommate at 35.

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Final Note

Ashley Gavin:
"Just be on the same page as him and his life ... and make sure it's on the same page as your life." (39:54)

Jared Freid:
"We are living under the lens of our parents’ generation ... If you were to say anyone with a roommate is undateable after the age of 35, I would say that you are living by another time’s standards." (38:10)

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Follow Ashley Gavin:

• Instagram, TikTok: @ashleygavin
• Podcasts: What's News With You? (with Josh Johnson); We're Having Gay Sex

Follow U Up?

• Instagram: @u.up.podcast
• YouTube: http://youtube.com/betches

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For more detailed conversations and dating content, check out the full episode on your favorite podcast app.

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

My girlfriend made a. Do a. Want to do a Lipa's dresses. She, like, sewed.

[C]

Come on. How did she find her?

[B]

What? What do you mean?

[C]

How do you find her to like Dua Lipa? How does she find her to sew it?

[B]

What do you mean, how to.

[C]

Oh, no, no, no.

[B]

My girlfriend didn't. Excuse me. I misspoke. I now understand what everyone's saying to me. My girlfriend made a dress for herself. Copied Dua Lipa's dress. My girlfriend is not a professional stylist. Seamst minor.

[C]

I was like, what? Can you imagine if I were Donatella Versace?

[B]

Girlfriend is Donatella. Oh, Donna. I love you, babe.

[C]

Hello and welcome to the UF podcast. I'm Jared Freed. I am joined by this week's co host, Ashley Gavin. Thank you for coming on the show.

[B]

Thank you for having me. I love podcasting with you.

[C]

Love it. Always a great time with we. Yeah, we have good pot energy.

[B]

We have great pot energy.

[C]

Well, we'll see. We're saying this before people get a chance to listen.

[B]

We did some sick riffs earlier. I'm. I'm sad they're not making it on.

[C]

These cameras should have been rolling at all time. That is the sad part about being a comedian. You're like, we. We wasted all this fun energy. Not even to be taped.

[B]

Like, we don't know how good I can be.

[C]

Right.

[B]

They just hit me off air.

[C]

You can see how good Ashley Gavin is by going to her podcast with Josh Johnson. It is called what's news with you? That's your new podcast?

[B]

Yeah, my new pod. And it's not news. It's the opposite of news. We cover everything that you would never have covered in the news.

[C]

So give me an example.

[B]

We have people call in so with

[C]

their news, with their personal news.

[B]

Yeah, their personal news. Like if a bird flew into their window, we cover that.

[C]

How do you vet that? Some people really will go on and on.

[B]

Oh, we have a schizo folder.

[C]

A schizo folder.

[B]

We have. We call it the schizo folder, it's not PC. I'm so sorry if you're. If you're offended by that. But we have a special folder for people who, you know, it's a little. It's a little odd.

[C]

So they email in first, and then you say, hey, we'll take this on the air.

[B]

My producer just. We have a hotline, and they call and they leave a message, and my producer vets all of them. I don't know how hard his job is. Yeah, yeah.

[C]

Also, you have another podcast. We're having gay sex. I've been on that show. I love going on that show.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

So much fun. Go follow Ashley Gavin. And so funny. So many great clips on TikTok. I mean, your. Your shows, sometimes when they come up, for me, it feel like it's this. Like, it feels like I'm getting to watch a party I wasn't invited to.

[B]

It can be a little. It can be horny. Let's just call it what it is.

[C]

Well, so you're doing.

[B]

It can be a little sexually charged.

[C]

It's a great standup. But it does feel like you're like. There's a moment in the show where you're like, all right, let me hear from you people.

[B]

Yeah, they're very, very. They're great.

[C]

It's a great. No, but there's a. There's a actual energy to all the videos. It feels like it's fun. Your shows are very, like. There's like a palpable thing going on.

[B]

I love. I. I'm realizing more and more I love the live element of performing, especially at the end of the show, because I'll do, like, my. My hour, and then at the end, we do 10 to 15 of crowd work, and I. I really just let

[C]

anything happen, and people come kind of prepared.

[B]

Yeah, they really.

[C]

They really do.

[B]

Yeah, they bring signs, they bring stories. They do.

[C]

You have. You kind of made it. So, like, hey, I'm going to do my act. And then, like, now we can do

[B]

what you guys can.

[C]

Because I would be afraid. I've had people bring signs to my shows. I'm never. To me, it's like an obstacle I have to get around. It's not like.

[B]

Well, it was. And then I learned that if I tell everyone, hey, please shut the up for the next hour, and then you can do whatever you want, they really listen. Yeah, they're very. You know what they're not. They're very polite. Like, they just need to know the rules. If you tell them the rules, they Will follow the rules.

[C]

So. And at the end of the show,

[B]

mommy says, be quiet. It.

[C]

I mean, one of someone in your audience just got a little wet from that. They're like, oh, my God, do it. They'll put that on rewind.

[B]

I didn't say it so.

[C]

At your show, but it does feel like, like, do people come out at your shows sometimes? Have you had that? Or. They're there in secret.

[B]

They're there.

[C]

It feels like there's, like, there's like,

[B]

there's a fair amount of bisexual women with boyfriends who are like, am I bi? And then by the end of the show, they're bi. Yeah, they're fully gay.

[C]

Are they there with the boyfriend? Do you have.

[B]

Oh, yeah. All the time. All the time.

[C]

And you have to kind of. Now you've become this, like, handhold.

[B]

I am a Sherpa. I will guide you to the promised land.

[C]

How do you feel about that as a. As a lesbian woman? Even saying that I was. What am I like? I felt like an idiot. That was the dumbest thing I've ever.

[B]

Yeah, that actually was so stupid.

[C]

Well, Michelle Wolf, good friend of mine, has a. Has a. Has a great. Had a great bit about how straight men and lesbian women don't interact.

[B]

Well, I'm finding it's starting to be. I. I don't know. I vote so many guy friends and I love.

[C]

I've always connected well with lesbian women.

[B]

I think that's understated. I think it's actually straight women are very proud of the fact that they have a gay male friend, but I think less so. I wish straight men would be more open about the fact that they enjoy hanging out with lesbians.

[C]

Right.

[B]

I think they can be a little insecure about what that means for them because men will come to my shows all the time, but often they are alone interest. They did not bring their boys with them. And I get it. It's a hard sell, right? It's a very strange thing to have to say to your guy friends. Hey, I'm going to go watch this lesbian that I like. And they're like, what is that?

[C]

Well, you know, I think bringing anyone to any comedy show is like this real reveal of what you watch totally alone at home. You stand up as kind of this. Alone on your phone or on Netflix. You turn it on when you're looking to pass time.

[B]

You're so right. Because it is the comedian's job is to get to the weird things that people think about. Don't want to admit they're Thinking about. And then when you say that this is my comedian. These are the thoughts.

[C]

These are my thoughts.

[B]

These are my thoughts. Yeah, you're right.

[C]

But. But it is funny because, like, if I have, I get. Yeah. The gay best friend to a woman is announced. It does feel a little bit weird. Like, I think we've gone to a place where you're like, why do you need this?

[B]

Yeah. You know, it's not your handbag.

[C]

Right. And then. But with men, you don't hear about, you know, but some would say that's progressive to just be like, this is my other friend.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

But, yeah, I understand what you're saying.

[B]

I do wish that more. Because my con. I. I identify so much with straight men. You know, like, we. And because I tend to date, I have been many women's first.

[C]

Really?

[B]

So, like. Yeah. So what's that? Like, I don't mind it a lot. A lot of lesbians do mind it.

[C]

Why do they mind it?

[B]

Because I think they're tired of being treated like an experiment. There's such a downside. But now that people are so liberated, I find that the downside is almost totally gone. I will say I'm in an open relationship, so I don't have to deal with. I know, Jared. I'm dropping a lot of bombs here.

[C]

This is, like, a lot for me. I don't know.

[B]

This is.

[C]

This is advanced progressive for me.

[B]

Yeah, exactly, exactly. It's really. It's a lot.

[C]

I'm open relationship lesbian. Oh, my God. Women's first. I got to. What is this, a porn category?

[B]

I will say I'm not polyamorous. I don't have relationships with other people. I couldn't handle that.

[C]

So this is. You're living a straight man's dream.

[B]

I am living the dream. You're.

[C]

I have a girlfriend.

[B]

I have a beautiful girlfriend who's wearing Dua Lipa's dresses. As we said earlier.

[C]

As I said, my. My celebrity crush, Dua Lipa. She can wear a Dua Lipa dress.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[C]

And you have an open relationship where. What are the rules?

[B]

We both can hook up with other people, but we can't do, like, relationships with other people.

[C]

So when you have consistent hookups with

[B]

other people, she does that more than I do. And because I'm on the road a lot, so I tend to hook up on the road. And she'll have, like, a regular that she sees in New York that she'll. She's got a couple guys that she.

[C]

This is the dream. This is like, what Every but you. I don't know if.

[B]

And girls. Sorry, sorry, sorry. And girls. I. I should clarify. She's bisexual. Yeah. Yeah.

[C]

Okay. So you go on the road, but men are easier.

[B]

This is the thing. When I start getting into details and I have to clarify everything. Men are easier. Okay.

[C]

How so? What do you mean?

[B]

They're easier to get.

[C]

Oh, for her.

[B]

For her, yeah.

[C]

It's so easy, right? She just, like, walk out into the street.

[B]

Yes, exactly.

[C]

I'm. I'm by. And I'm.

[B]

So most of her regulars are men, and she's got. She's got one or two girls that she sees, but for me, it's like a different.

[C]

Usually a different woman in every town. You're like a sailor, so.

[B]

And I know how to die knots.

[C]

Holy. She does it all. So. So hold on. So when you go on the road, are you getting approached? Oh, yeah, big time.

[B]

It's very fun. Yeah.

[C]

You're. This is.

[B]

I have a great life.

[C]

Died. And this is heaven.

[B]

I have to remind myself not to complain all the time.

[C]

Right. Well, I mean, complaining is the best, but I could see how you go. So you go to a town and are you. What are you generally, like, getting approached with? Is it like, I want my first and sometimes. Right. I would assume on the road comedian, you're kind of like a safe space for.

[B]

Totally. Someone see other things that you're.

[C]

Right.

[B]

Because they know the rules to see. This is what a lot of people don't get about the open thing. They're like, oh, I could never do that. But when everything's out, it makes it so easy. There's no games.

[C]

Right.

[B]

This woman knows she is probably never going to see me again, and so therefore, it's just a lot of. It's just what it is. Like in reading some of that, I've done your other podcast.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Dealing with the rules of straight relationships and what is this going to be? And having to trick the man into staying longer. The man's trying to trick the girl into not getting serious. Not to, like, be stereotyped. Of course, that's not always what it is.

[C]

But generally we see that's a.

[B]

The point. But when you're in an open relationship and you're just like, this is sex. And I'm very serious. And I'm very serious about that. Like, that's like, do you want to have a family?

[C]

Do you want to have.

[B]

Oh, yeah, I froze my eggs.

[C]

Did. Did she as well.

[B]

She's a little younger than me, so. But we've been talking about whether or not she's going to freeze her eggs.

[C]

So you froze your eggs and do you plan or does it even matter to plan to have open relationship be a part of your life or.

[B]

We, we've talked about that. Because it, it does present. When you have a family, there's now another person who is not consenting. Sure to.

[C]

Even though it's a great way to put it. I never would have thought of it that way. The kid consenting to.

[B]

Even though the kid is obviously not a, a part of that part of our lives. If the kid were to find out in a way or feel weird about that. So, so we've, we have not decided what we're going to do about that. If we do continue, I think it would be, we would be lying to everybody that we were, we were closed. I think it would be such an airtight secret, you know.

[C]

What do you mean?

[B]

I wouldn't want, I wouldn't want my kid to have to deal with any weirdness at school about it.

[C]

Right. So. So you're saying we would be together and.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. It would maybe be monogamous or if there was some kind of hall pass agreement that happened once a year or something, you know, like it would have

[C]

to be a total, you have to

[B]

be a total secret.

[C]

I got, I listen. So on the road, by the way,

[B]

there are parents doing this because I hear from them.

[C]

Well, you're hearing from everyone. Yeah, yeah, you're, you're hearing from everyone. Married woman who's dreamt of this her whole life hearing about all marriages like, well, comedians get this. Like Ashley sips her drink, doesn't want to get into it too, too far. I know, but I'm saying like, you know, as a comedian, we go to a party, we get the weirdest person coming up to us and going, I have to tell you my deepest, darkest secret cuz I know nothing shocks you. Right? Like I get that all the time when I'm at a party and then suddenly I'm on this teary eyed conversation with someone about, you know, what's going on in their life and I'm like, I can't believe every party I have to deal with this and I've heard

[B]

every gay thought from every man in comedy. They've all just, they've all, I can't put it through divulge, but. Right, Jared, if you'd like to let

[C]

me know, we'll have a talk after this. I got, I got a few things to go over. So on the road I'm, I'M curious to you get approach. How do you. How do you decide?

[B]

Well, I'm not that lucky.

[C]

Well, you're lucky enough.

[B]

I'm lucky.

[C]

But I'm saying you get done with the show. Is there a dm? Is it?

[B]

Yeah, usually it's like a dm.

[C]

Yeah. And it's like, let's get drinks. But, you know, I. You don't drink.

[B]

I don't drink. And it depends on what she's comfortable with. But typically it.

[C]

Typically it's like, come to my room. I'm here.

[B]

Yeah. And typically, how you are living in heaven.

[C]

No drinks, no fuss, no muss. This is crazy.

[B]

I'll get the Uber.

[C]

I'd get the Uber.

[B]

Are you kidding?

[C]

Oh, this is amazing.

[B]

Do I seem like a bad person?

[C]

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Well, you're in the right place to not be judged. I think this is great. You know, the opening up part of it.

[B]

Women, like. I feel like straight women, if they want to live like this, they get called names, you know, and it's. It also, they live in constant danger.

[C]

Well, the danger part is dangerous.

[B]

Crazy. I just get to.

[C]

You get to be with, you know.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

You know, you're not inviting a grizzly bear over.

[B]

Yeah, exactly. It's a fair fight if there's gonna be a fight.

[C]

Right.

[B]

I did make a woman put her knife away. This was a very long time. I. I hooked up with a woman. I should bring this story back. It was the first story I told on. We're having gay sex, by the way. You don't have to be gay to watch it. It's just comedy about my dating life.

[C]

It's a great podcast. I always have fun. And listen, if you want me as the appetizer, you.

[B]

There's Hannah Burner, there's all kinds of straight people. Raina Greenberg, like, we've had all kinds of straight people on them.

[C]

The straights are invited.

[B]

Yeah. But I did make a woman put her knife. I put her knife in the safe of my hotel.

[C]

So she comes over, she says, hey, I'd love to.

[B]

She's security obsessed. She's like, a little, like, to the

[C]

point where it made you.

[B]

She got like her home got broken in on. And we had been talking about that. She was like, oh, yeah, I own guns. I have a knife on me right now. And I was like, well, that's not gonna fly. I'm putting your knife in the safe.

[C]

So wait, hold on.

[B]

I'm not getting naked. You got the knife.

[C]

Take a step back. Show Ends you get a dm.

[B]

Hey, I had met her on Hinge.

[C]

Okay, so you meet on Hinge. Hey, nice to meet you. I know you from your comedy. I'm going to be in town. Would love to. Or I'm already in town. It's on Hinge. And hey, the show just got over. Come over kind that.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And. And then you say, I invited her to the show.

[B]

Show is over. We're going. We go back to my hotel room.

[C]

Okay. I know you have a knife on you. Can you please put it in the safe?

[B]

Yeah, yeah, I put her knife in

[C]

the safe and she said, no problem.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, she said, no problem.

[C]

See, I have this. Here's where. Here's where you and I kind of diverge. You and I are both a safe adventure, which is what a lot of women want.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

They want a safe adventure.

[B]

You're so right about that.

[C]

Yes, they want to have this fun, this wild night, but they also want to know that they're going to be safe and that they're going to be held and, and, and respected.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And I think for me, I'm a safe adventure to date. That is a much worse place than safe adventure to have a sexual encounter with. Like, oh, we should do drinks. I'm like, drinks.

[B]

Yeah, but that's your, that's your charm. You're great at dating. That's your whole thing.

[C]

This is like a genie's wish gone wrong. Yeah, it is really great at dating.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

But nowhere to put your penis. So boy, oh boy, do I know about that?

[D]

This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. March is all about celebrating women, especially International Women's Day. First of all, women are incredible. We're the planners, the emotional support system, the ones keeping track of everything. But when we're showing up, for everyone else, our own emotional well being can easily fall to the bottom of the list. If you're feeling the pressure. Therapy can be such a helpful way to create balance, set boundaries, and make space for yourself. You know, everyone is really still figuring it out, including me. And I think therapy is the best way to help figure yourself out your world out what you want out, and just work through any issues that you really are having a tough time figuring out on your own. A licensed therapist can really help you get to the bottom of whatever has been bothering you. With over 30,000 fully licensed therapists, Better Help is one of the world's largest online therapy platforms. They do the initial matching work for you so you can focus on your therapy goals. A short questionnaire helps Identify your needs and preferences and if you aren't happy with your match, switch to a different therapist at any time from their tailored wrecks. Your emotional well being matters. Find support and feel lighter in therapy. Sign up and get 10% [e-mail] UUP that's better. H E L p.com UUP this episode

[E]

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[B]

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[F]

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[C]

We want everyone to go follow Ashley. We're going to do some emails. We'll play some red flag at a deal breaker. We're going to do Nikki or picky. We're so excited to have you here, Nikki or pick Icky or picky. So you're dating someone and you have to decide if it's a real val ick or if they're just being.

[B]

Got it. Got it.

[C]

But we'll start with a red flag or deal breaker, which is the game that is sweeping the nation. You're dating someone. One thing happens. It's the most perfect date you've ever been on. One thing happens is a red flag. You notice it, you keep going. Or is it a deal breaker? You end at sight unseen?

[B]

What?

[C]

Have you ever gotten in a fight with your girlfriend about a hookup that's happened on the road?

[B]

No, I, I know this is going to sound like dream come true, maybe too easy. But we, we're not big fighters, right? We, we do not really have escalated arguments. We barely even have arguments.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

But we, we have a, a monthly check in where we check in about the open thing and we talk about it. We always let each other know. I think we're just really lucky because we're totally identically on the same page.

[C]

And also I think the rules. I think, I think what you're saying, though, is like, it's hard to get to, but once you get there.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

Like, you're there and those are the rules. And it kind of like you have some more simple.

[B]

You. Yes. A lot of people are like, that sounds complicated. Like, how do you not let feelings arise? But I actually think the opposite. I think it's easier to cheat when you guys do. Just don't have an established idea of what cheating means. A little flirting, you know, like having a crush. There's all. There's so many things in other cultures.

[C]

And then it, like, becomes resent.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

You know?

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[C]

Bearing it away.

[B]

Like, we have total transparency.

[C]

Right.

[B]

We can be like, here's everything that happened and we've had conversations about it. And like, recently we had a conversation where I learned something new where she was like, I would be more upset if you lied, like, about something rather than if you broke the rules and told me that would be okay. More okay than you breaking the rules and not telling me this is. And knowing that is great. Because then I can just be like, hey, I accidentally broke the rules and I'm going to tell you right now.

[C]

Let's just get out here.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

At the monthly check in.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

With my supervisor.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

All right. Let's play a red flag or deal break. Are you ready?

[B]

Yes.

[C]

JJ and a I love the red flag deal breaker game and unfortunately, finally have something to write in about. I, female, was seeing a guy exclusively for eight months when he broke things off. We started hanging out again soon after, but for about two months, it was more friends with benefits until I ended it and told him if we weren't going to be together, I couldn't keep doing that. A couple of weeks later, he came back saying he'd been stupid and wanted to be serious again. That was two months ago. Things felt like they were going well. We were making future plans and even talking about engagement rings. Then out of nowhere, he asked if I had ever kissed one of my female female friends. I said yes. Once he told me to get away from him, said he couldn't trust me, and packed his things and left. He refused to hear me out when I tried explaining it had happened when we weren't together and nothing else happened. The next day, he texted that I'm not deserving of his time or energy or even a conversation. For context, the kiss happened while we were broken up and it was a drunken moment. Additional context. He's not a big fan of this friend. He's more traditional about relationships while she is More in her casual era up. He's previously questioned whether I'd be untrustworthy when I'm out with her, and I've always reassured him that if we're exclusive, there's nothing to worry about. Also, early in our relationship, there were a few times I left out details about my past that later came up, and he said I lied to him. So is his reaction a red flag or a deal breaker? Or am I the red flag? Sincerely by curious, but not that curious batch. What do you think?

[B]

Thank you for theming this around me.

[A]

We do.

[C]

We do right by our guests. Well, you know, there's sometimes. Here's the issue. We stand with a dating podcast where we do want to be inclusive of anyone that wants to listen. You go, I can't speak for this.

[B]

Right? You can't speak for this. It's also so different, right? At the same time, I wish. God, I wish I could apply some of the things that I do and recommend in the queer community to the straight community. I think you guys would be so much better off. It really is awful to read some of this. Honestly, I.

[C]

Honestly.

[B]

What are you guys doing?

[C]

After hearing about your life? Honestly, after hearing about your life, I want you to advise the straight community too, Jared, right? Let him go to the hotel room.

[B]

Don't even worry about it.

[C]

Let me go on the road, have an Uber, show up with a random hot chick that I vetted through Instagram and let her just blow me and go on her way. Come on, let me have the Ashley Gavin method. The Gavin method. The Gavin method.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

I want to have a Gavin time.

[B]

You'll have a Gavin time too, by the way.

[C]

Right?

[B]

We'll both have a Gavin time.

[C]

Have a Gavin time. All go down on each other.

[B]

First of all, bi. Can I just say, dear listener, you are bisexual. Okay, just stop trying to make caveats. Yeah, you're kissing women is by.

[C]

Curious a thing.

[B]

It is, but it's just like, can you please.

[C]

It's. You're right.

[B]

You don't have to. There's so much shame in this, right? As I read this, I hear shame.

[C]

He didn't help that.

[B]

Oh, no, he did not. I'm not that curious. She's just a friend. Nothing else happened. I don't know all this stuff. Like, it is okay that you kissed your friend. It is okay for you to be bi. Curious. It's okay for you to be bi. Like, whatever. Like, just.

[C]

What if I was like, no, it's not okay.

[B]

Don't even worry about the labels. This Is like a whole other thing besides this man. Like, everything's going to be okay. Don't worry about the labels. It's okay that you're kissing your friend. You can do more with your friend. You can kiss other. Other women.

[C]

Even the label of friend. Like you flirt with this woman that you're attracted to.

[B]

Yes, exactly.

[C]

And he felt that. Like, he got nervous about her.

[B]

Exactly.

[C]

You know, the. The. What was that meme? The person you were worried about.

[B]

Yes, exactly.

[C]

You know, it's just like, you have a thing with this woman. I think it should be.

[B]

He obviously knows this woman is, like, hot.

[C]

Right. And someone you're into.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

So, like, it. He makes him insecure. That's okay.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

It is separate than the email. Because, like, I look at this email, this could be from anyone, and I'd be like, what he's doing is such a move.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

He doesn't want to commit. The minute it got. He found one thing to call you out on, and he saw it as a, you know, a lever he could pull to get him out.

[B]

Exactly. It's like there's. There's bad energy from him before the bisexuality issue. Like the, you know, not getting serious. And then maybe, what do they call it? Love bombing? Maybe. I don't. It's hard to say, like, but you can't, like, talk about engagement rings and then freak out because. And then not even worry about when this hookup happened. Like, it's just right.

[C]

Well. And then not have a discussion.

[B]

Yeah, exactly.

[C]

Exactly. You know, you're. When you start talking about the whole order of this. You're dating, then you break up, and then he comes back. I was stupid. Now we're two months in and talking about relay getting engaged, and now one disagreement. He goes, no discussion, no nothing. You go, you're bringing up mature topics to try and ease me into, like. Like a, like saying engagement in any ways. And looking at rings is like, easy there. Chill, chill. And then the moment I do something wrong and you don't want to be in this anymore, you go, oh, you made out with your friend. I'm out.

[B]

Yeah. I also, like, that's such a tender. Sorry. But to ask someone like, oh, have you ever had, like, a gay experience? Like, that's a really sensitive question. If you're not willing to bring, like, some. I mean, maybe they think of it differently, but in my mind, if, like, I'm asking someone that, I'm like, oh,

[C]

like, you're being very gentle.

[B]

You want to be gentle with that person because, like, they might feel shame, which she. He obviously does. And even if it's just a little bit, even if it's, like, casual mainstream shame, which this appears to be. But, like, yeah, I don't like that he didn't. He didn't bring care to that conversation. Right.

[C]

So he's a total deal breaker.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

I hate him when you don't give. Well, I'm with you when you don't. You know, I like that you said the care to the conversation about that. About her bisexuality.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Then you have to, like, he's honestly being selfish and not caring about what. This is the match.

[B]

He clearly asked that, like, in reference to himself, either because he was worried about this other woman or because he has, like, opinions about that. He didn't ask that. Like, I want to get to know you, and is this something that's important to you? Like, have you ever, like, reflected on your sexuality? Like, you know, he didn't. It was like. Like, I need to know this about you because I'm gonna form an opinion and.

[C]

Well, form an opinion and a reason to go.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Like, it gives me the right to leave.

[B]

Maybe I was looking for anything, maybe.

[C]

Yeah, I think so. Like, I mean, like, that happens a lot of breakups. It's like, okay, I have written a check that I can't cash called engagement. All right, what's the only way out of this engagement that I've kind of, like, hinted at?

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Oh, I can use this societally negative thing of, like, the societal judgment that goes with, like, kissing a woman.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

In some circles. Now, I can use that against you because you already feel this shame, as you said, kind of to kind of, like, try over your own shame.

[B]

You know, I would. The other girl.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Because it looks like she's willing just based on what you've written.

[C]

There's something there.

[B]

Sounds. Sounds like she's having a great time.

[C]

Yeah, I think so.

[B]

I would go have sex with your friend.

[C]

So deal breaker. Let's do it.

[B]

And if you don't,

[C]

we'll bring in Ashley. We can close.

[B]

We can. Gavin method it.

[C]

Yeah. Well, Gavin meth. What city are you in? Ashley will be rolling in.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Ready to go. What's the best city for meeting a woman?

[B]

I don't know.

[C]

You know, they're all good.

[B]

Where have I had the most luck? I feel like it's like, just like a gay city.

[C]

Like, is there, like, maybe is like, a more like. Like, is there more like a repressive city? Is that better? Like, sometimes you go to, like, Salt Lake City. And you're like, the audience is here.

[B]

The audiences in Salt Lake City are unreal.

[C]

They're unbelievable. When does this come out? This comes out March. I'm gonna be in Salt Lake City. This wasn't a way to bring up Salt Lake. I'm gonna be in Salt Lake. I'm gonna be in la. I'm gonna be in Tempe. If you're in those cities, come to my show.

[B]

But I. I've gotten pretty lucky in Phoenix a couple times.

[C]

Really?

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Phoenix feels wild. Phoenix is west coast Florida, and Phoenix is west coast Fort Lauderdale.

[B]

You know what? You're. You're not wrong. You're not wrong about that.

[C]

Phoenix is West Coast Fort Lauderdale. It is the same amount of stupid. It's the same amount of, like, we're just partying, man. They're drinking. Monsters versus Red Bulls, you know, like, this is. Yeah, it's like, bizarre Fort Lauderdale. And it's. There is an energy there of like, just like, fun stupidity.

[B]

You're so right. Because I hooked up with sort of a queer anti vaxxer, and I was like, this is very interesting.

[C]

What a combo.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, she had a backstory.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Something had happened.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

And I was like, you know, maybe, maybe we, you know, very. That's, that's rough. What happened to you is very rough. But maybe anecdotal experience is not more important.

[C]

I hope you discuss this after the hookup. Let's get, let's get the job done.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Still discuss, like, listen, Robert Kennedy memes.

[B]

As a liberal. She's not like that.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

As a liberal. Okay. It is my job to stay in the game with people.

[C]

I think I can swing living, whether

[B]

that's sexually or politically.

[C]

So that's your. That's what you bring to the.

[B]

That's what I. I am a middle of the road gay.

[C]

Okay. And you'll find a way to get them swung to the side.

[B]

Me, personally, I'm pretty far left with my belief system, but I'm never gonna, like, shame someone. I'm always gonna be the person to have the, the conversation with. If you have thoughts that you don't want to admit to the people around you, you can admit them to me and we will have a, a, a, A thoughtful, friendly conversation.

[C]

After you go down.

[B]

After I. After I finger you into oblivion.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

When your brain is in a malleable state,

[C]

after you've gotten indexed by the

[B]

gas,

[C]

that's when you're good to go. That's when we'll start talking liberal. Values.

[B]

I'm taking index by the gav, indexed

[C]

by the great merch item indexed. I love that. Let's do icky or picky. Ready? We're gonna tell this person whether this is an A valid ick or they're being picky. Frequent listener, subscriber here. Thanks for making dating a little bit easier and funnier. I'm writing about something that could be considered an icky or picky or red flag deal breaker. Would love your thoughts on having roommates as we get older. Are you living with your girlfriend?

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

See that makes it easier too. You're in, you're with each other, you come back, you go yeah. No indexing. Yes, index.

[B]

We're zero on the index today.

[C]

Zero. I'm a 28 year old woman dating a 35 year old man. We met IRL, not on the apps. Have a great connection, have been seeing each other about three months. He's 35, has a roommate. None of this bothers me and it's not a deal breaker. I'm just curious about your take. He moved to our city years ago, found his roommate, a woman slightly older than him through Facebook book they've lived together for five years, get along well. Nothing romantic has ever happened. I've lived alone since 25 and wouldn't usually expect a 35 year old to have a roommate. I think it ties into his lifestyle. He has a solid career as an independent journalist, but lives more like someone in their 20s. Video games, weed at night, going out for drinks late, late hours due to remote work. That said, our lifestyles are actually very similar. We even met at a bar we both frequent. My question is there, my questions. Is there a real age cut off for having roommates or is it all about context? If two people's styles align and no one's bothered, does it matter? Thanks. A solo living, but roommate dating. What do you think, Ashley? Gavin?

[B]

I mean maybe, maybe there's something. I don't know, but this does. Wouldn't bother me at all.

[C]

Would not bother me at all. Yeah, I'm with you.

[B]

I. I mean maybe it's different with men, but I think that would be a. A bad double standard. It's nice to live with someone. You save money, right? You, you have a built in. Especially if you guys get along. Yeah, I don't see the problem. Like, I love. I just love hanging out. So I can see why you'd want to have a roommate. I lived alone. I don't know, I mean like I almost feel like now that I'm older I understand the value of community a little bit more.

[C]

I totally agree with this. This is like one of those, I'm 27 and I date a 35 year old and how could they have a roommate place of life? Like, I think this is different when you're 27 looking at this than when you're 35 or 40. I'm 40 and you know, I think there has to be, there's two things that have to happen. There has to be an acknowledgment and a plan.

[B]

Yes, yes.

[C]

So let's acknowledge what is going on is a little different, like from anyone. Totally. Like, if someone said to you, like, you know, there's a lot of like fear of like judging someone's relationship and how they're doing it and poly versus, yeah, you know, ethical, non monogamy and all those things. Open relationship is, you're in. And for me to ask, how does it work? Is not really me saying I hate it and no one can do it. I just want to know how it works.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

If you were to say to me, well, come on, Jared, have an open mind. Yeah, no, I, I, I just want, you know, you're living differently than I know people to live.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[C]

So in the same way, this guy, like, if, if I met a woman who's 35 and she lived in this like really fabulous New York City apartment and she was working and doing really well and she's living with this other woman, they're both single. And she came to me and was like, you know what? I, I'm a single woman living in New York and this is really the last time I could have a fun roommate. Yeah, we get along really well. New York is expensive. This makes it very comfortable for me. I get to save money, I get to have a great place. I'm in the part of town anyone would kill to be in. I have my own living space, I have my own bathroom. I've worked it out to work with my life, I would actually be jealous of that.

[B]

Yeah, I think it's actually great right now that I don't know what the relationship is between the roommates. But now that I'm a little older, I'm like, gosh, I gotta kind of wish I could live with my best friends.

[C]

Totally.

[B]

Like, I tell them, one of my best friends, he's allergic to cats, so he couldn't live with me. But I say all the time, like, I would gladly subsidize his rent to like just be around community. I love community, so I totally get it, and as far as the alternate, not, I don't want to say alternate, but like, you know, he's doing his own thing. He's, he's a freelance journalist.

[C]

Right.

[B]

You know, like, some people are just like that. I think comedians are really just like that. I don't want the life where you get into that level of routine that's kind of boring. Like, I don't know, why not try to be young friends?

[C]

Listen, I, I, you know, we, and also with the roommate thing, we are living under the, the lens of our parents. Generation 100. I was gonna say it's really not fair to us.

[B]

It's not fair, especially given the economy. Like, the economy be a new normal for a lot of people.

[C]

Also the Internet and how work works, you know, like, I, you know, I moved to Delray beach and I have so many people. How's it going? And I'm like, once you free yourself, like, I was like, you know, my response a lot of times to comics, I'm like, the two largest touring comedians in the world don't live in New York or la. So you go, okay, once you get around that, you go, okay, Could I do that? Well, hypothetically I could. It's, it's not an impossibility. I've seen it happen for other people. And then you go, well, plane travel isn't what it was in the 80s. And like, like the idea that I'm living this lifestyle that is by the rules of another age. I do think in this day and age you meet someone with a roommate. If you were to say anyone with a roommate is undateable after the age of 35, I would say that you are living by another time standards.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[C]

And yeah, that's not, I, I, I'm with like, and also as comics we know, we just, we have a lot of value in making the lifestyle work.

[B]

Yes. Yeah.

[C]

You know, so we go, well, you're saving money and you have a good place and it's in the right part of town and you can do stand up and you can do the thing you're passionate about and you can be an independent journalist. So I think to this person, like, it's so hard to do. I, I, it's so hard to like, see your life different than the one you grew up in.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And I think that's like the thing that they need to get over, even in a small way.

[B]

Yeah. I don't know what her, I can't really tell from her tone here, but I would just say make sure it aligns with whatever you're trying to do.

[C]

Right. What's the future? What? Why do you do this now? What's the future hold for you? Yeah, I think those are the two questions. Why do you do this now? Hey, it makes it so the pressures of my independent journalism, you know, career doesn't really get to me. I can. I know I can handle the cost of living.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

Even in hard times.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

And I'd like to live with someone in the future that is my wife or get married. Like, let's make sure that the. The goals are aligned. But, like, this might help them get to those goals, even in a more comfortable way.

[B]

Yeah, totally. I mean, my girlfriend and I talk about it all the time. You know, we're. We're not engaged, but we are engaged. You know what I mean? We just. We're just moving at the. I don't know, we're just kind of doing our own thing. Like, we don't really worry about it.

[C]

When's the wedding?

[B]

No, but we talk all the time. Like, we love waking up at 10 or 11, you know, and, like, do we want to have kids? It's just, like, always, just be on the same page as him and his. His life, you know, Like.

[C]

Right.

[B]

And make sure it's on the same page as your life.

[C]

Right. I think maybe sometimes the assumption with like, roommate plays video games, smokes weed, you go, well, they must not want anything else. Well, maybe that's the way they're doing it. To get to the same thing you want.

[B]

Exactly, exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[C]

So actually, this is fantastic. We're having you on. Everyone go follow Ashley Gavin on TikTok, on Instagram, on all the social platforms. But most importantly, what's news with you with Josh Johnson? And we're having gay sex. Two podcasts that are fantastic and wonderful. This is great.

[B]

Thank you.

[C]

So happy you came on. So funny. Everyone go follow. I'm Jared Freed. We are here every week, Wednesday and Friday, you can follow us on Instagram and Tick Tock, but also on YouTube where you can watch this. And we do benefits episodes where we are checking in with Jordana and her mother Journey. She's got two babies. They're so cute. We're gonna check in with her, so sign up for you up with benefits to get all the updates on Jordana and during her maternity leave. And we'll be back next week. Boom.

[G]

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[B]

Experian batches.