When Is the Right Time to Share Your Number?

Summary

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U Up? – Episode Summary

Episode Title: When Is the Right Time to Share Your Number?
Air Date: October 8, 2025
Hosts: Jordana Abraham & Jared Freid

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Overview

In this episode of U Up?, Jordana Abraham and Jared Freid dive into several pressing modern dating topics, including the etiquette and meaning behind sharing phone numbers after dates, how to ask for relationship clarity without making things awkward, and whether various deal-breakers are truly the end of the road. The episode is peppered with the duo’s signature banter, personal dating anecdotes, and real-life listener dilemmas.

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Highlights & Key Discussion Points

1. Catching Up & Gen-Z Vices (00:00 – 12:50)

• Wedding Recap & Party Towns:
  Jordana shares her experience attending her husband's friend's wedding in Saratoga Springs—“It feels like the town is Weddingville. And that’s what you do there” (03:06, Jordana).

• Late Nights & After-Parties:
  Jared waxes nostalgic and confused about after-parties and NY's infamous 4am bar closings. "What I hate is that sometimes it'll be like...I don't know if there's an afterparty, but everyone's going to this bar. And, like, it almost feels like the bride and groom are trying to...call it their afterparty" (16:49, Jared).

• Zyn Nicotine Pouches Discussion:
  The pair are surprised by the prevalence of Zyn among men at the wedding. Jordana, admitting to feeling ancient for not knowing about it, seeks clarity: “So it’s like chewing tobacco, but like the new chewing tobacco?" (04:46, Jordana). Jared explains, “It’s a way of getting a jolt, getting a little bit of a buzz...it’s become like a big golf thing too, like it’s a very male thing.” (06:38, Jared)

• Etiquette of “Things In Your Mouth” (like Zyn, gum):
  Both hosts agree there’s a level of discretion necessary when using Zyn or gum in public, especially on dates. "If you're in a situation where you wouldn't smoke or vape, don't pop Zyn either. Go to the bathroom, remove your zyn. That's the GQ etiquette" (12:35, Jared, quoting GQ).

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2. Stand-Up Anecdotes: Bachelorette Party Gone Wrong (28:21 – 34:44)

• Jared recounts a disastrous encounter with a bachelorette party at his stand-up show: “You ever watch a group of 13 women try to, like, leave a room? It is like a parade leaving. It took 30 minutes. They’re all looking for purses. People can’t find their wallets. It was so awful.” (33:16, Jared)
• Jordana’s commentary on bachelorette parties at comedy shows: “I love a good bachelorette party activity. I don’t think a comedy show would be my move” (31:34, Jordana).

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3. The Right Time to Ask Where Things Are Going (38:01 – 55:00)

Listener Dilemma:
A listener writes in: After 8 dates in 2 months (but no sex yet), when is it okay to ask a guy where things are headed? She doesn’t want to scare him off but doesn’t want to waste her time.

Key Discussion:

• Analysis of Their Text Exchange:
  Jared notes the guy’s preemptive transparency: “Men have way more emotional intelligence than they’re given credit for...He reaches out. He knows eight dates, two months. Proactive. Let me get ahead of this.” (42:11, Jared)

• Reading Between the Lines:
  “What he doesn’t say...what I’m hearing is: I’d like to continue casually seeing you. This is probably not going to be a relationship for me, but I want to be upfront about that.” (43:01, Jordana)

• The Importance of Being Direct:
  They encourage the listener to clearly state her intentions, rather than masking them to appear cool. “If she wants answers...I am only dating you will be a very powerful thing to say to him.” (49:45, Jared)

• On ‘Dating Policy’ and Communication:
  “In her mind, a relationship is like, I'm not looking to talk about living together. And it’s like, no one's saying that about you. You're looking to talk about having a standing Saturday with each other.” (50:21, Jared)

• Memorable Moment:
  "You're going to have to force him to commit to you or break up with you." (51:55, Jordana)

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4. When Should You Share Your Number? (68:10 – 73:34)

Listener Question:
Is it weird that guys don’t ask for my number after a first (successful) date, even if they want to go out again?

Key Insights:

• Both hosts agree waiting until after meeting in person to exchange numbers is reasonable, especially for safety, but acknowledge it can cause confusion or inertia: “You tell me when you want me to take your number, right?” (69:34, Jared)
• Jared on modern etiquette: “You’ve made this a thing for you, which I’m respecting the thing. And I think you gotta, like, I would maybe forget. I would be maybe one of those people that would forget.” (69:58, Jared)
• They recommend making it playful and direct: “Here’s my number, you passed the test” is a fun way to move things along. (71:04, Jordana)

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5. Icky or Picky: Is Hair (or Gifts!) a Dealbreaker?

Back Hair Dilemma (56:05 – 67:17)

Listener is turned off by a new date’s “very hairy back” despite great chemistry.

• Jordana: “This is a fixable issue... Hair is a very easy problem to fix, in my mind. If the person is willing.” (57:53, Jordana)
• Jared: “You can’t be too soon. It's too soon. I think you have to earn the right to suggest changes.” (59:43, Jared)
• Both agree: This is picky—not a fundamental dealbreaker. “If the love of your life has back hair...I think it’s easier for a woman. You’re going to look at him and go, I am so attracted to you, you know what would make me even more attracted? If you did a European Wax Center.” (65:38, Jared)

Red Flag or Deal Breaker: Does Not Give Gifts (87:00 – 96:44)

Listener shares a Hinge conversation with a guy who has a “no gift giving” policy for weddings, birthdays, and even with family.

• Jared: “He stinks. This is one of those that's like, he...like, to me, this is how kind of men get...so you get a little entrenched in your opinions.” (89:38, Jared)
• Jordana: “This guy’s like, going out of his way to turn her off. The red flag is this would be an annoying guy to fight with because he’s very sure of himself.” (90:55, Jordana)
• Both: Deal breaker. Having rigid dating policies marks someone as potentially inflexible and out of touch with social norms.

Red Flag or Deal Breaker: His Mom is Overzealous (81:40 – 86:27)

A listener shares texts from a date’s mom, who calls herself “future mother-in-law” after a single date.

• “If you liked him, you’d find this cute. If you’re not sure, it’s a negative.” (83:06, Jordana)
• Jared sees mom’s behavior as consistent and not a true reflection on the son.

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6. Other Notable Quotes & Moments

• On asking direct questions:
  “She took his vague and raised him vague.” (44:06, Jared)
• On men who are too set in their ways:
  “This is a product of dating apps—you just go back to the bin and see who can deal with these policies.” (96:32, Jared)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Wedding Talk/Zyn & Gen Z Vices: 01:41 – 12:50
• Bachelorette Stand-Up Disaster: 28:21 – 34:44
• Listener Letter: ‘Where Is This Going?’ Conversation: 38:01 – 55:00
• Icky or Picky: Hairy Back: 56:05 – 67:17
• Sharing Numbers/Phone Etiquette: 68:10 – 73:34
• Red Flag or Deal Breaker Lightning Round: 75:38 – 96:44

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Tone & Style

The tone remains conversational, witty, and frank throughout, with Jared’s self-deprecating humor and Jordana’s candid, pragmatic advice. Real listener stories ground the episode in everyday modern dating realities, while both hosts consistently emphasize the value of clarity, communication, and not overthinking the rules.

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Conclusion & Takeaways

• Be Direct: If you want clarity in dating, state your intentions clearly; don’t “raise them vague.”
• Personal Rules are Fine, but Don’t Turn Them into Walls: Have boundaries about safety, but don’t be afraid to move past them smoothly.
• Don’t Overthink the Little Stuff: Hair, gifts, moms—these things are surmountable if the chemistry and compatibility are real.
• Observe, Don’t Excuse, Red Flags: Rigid “no gift” policies and unwillingness to compromise are likely signs of bigger compatibility issues.
• Have Fun With It: Much of dating is about attitude—embrace the wild details, communicate clearly, and don’t stress the rest.

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Next Up:
Friday’s episode will be a review/discussion of You’ve Got Mail — listeners are encouraged to watch or rewatch before tuning in!

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Transcript

[A]

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[B]

And I am Jared Freed. It is so good to be back here with you, Jordana. We are virtual today. I'm coming to you live from La La Land, Los Angeles, and you are in the Long Island Kingdom. How are you? What's going on? We just want to let people know for YouTube and Spotify purposes. If you're watching, you can see we're in our little boxes. How are you?

[A]

We are remote today, but we never, we never miss an episode.

[B]

So here we are, yet to miss one.

[A]

I'm good. Yeah, yeah, I'm good. I had a wedding. We had a wedding in upstate New York.

[B]

I saw you guys were dressed up. I saw a couple selfies. Whose wedding? How was it? How was the food?

[A]

It was one of Mike's friends from, from Miami, from college.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

So it was, it was kind of a drive. It was like a four hour drive up there. So we stayed the night up there. It was fun. It was at a golf course. Really beautiful views. I think men love a golf course view.

[B]

Love, love, love a golf cart course. I like the smell. I like an early morning golf course. I like a, like, I like getting on a golf course and going, ah, just like it feels like A full meal, you know.

[A]

Yes, indeed. Yeah. So it was a. It was a golf course. Course wedding. It was. It was beautiful. It was a.

[B]

So good.

[A]

Had a good time. Great. Wasn't a country club exactly. It was like Saratoga National Golf.

[B]

Oh, Saratoga is like a wedding place. Like, so Saratoga Springs. Yeah, I've been up there. That's like where the horse races. It's like a very. Yes, it's kind of a party town. Saratoga, New York. I've been to a wedding up there at a horse stable of sorts. It's beautiful. It's all. Yeah, it's like. It's like. It feels like the town is Weddingville. And that's what you do there. Like.

[A]

Right. And you were saying. It's like. It's funny because, like, I mean, I didn't do this, but they were people who went out until like 4 in the morning to the bars.

[B]

It's a party town. Like, there's a.

[A]

Right. I'm like, they close at 4:00am New York. Well, this is so random.

[B]

This is kind of a pre pandemic thing where New York City, 4am was the bar closing time. And then, you know, less bars do it now. But 4am was a new York City thing. But then what would happen is you would go to like, another town in the state of New York where they share the rules with New York City. And some of these towns would be like, it's 4am we can do it here. And Saratoga Springs is one of those areas that kind of like has a party thing going on that, like, you could be at a bar until 4am there just because they're getting the New York City rules and allowances because they're in New York State. And you. You do have a moment where you're like, oh, yeah, we are in New York 4:00am and then, you know, you're at a bar and like, townieville, usa. And you're like, what am I doing here?

[A]

For sure. Yeah. And it was like a. It was a. It was a party crew, I would say. And it was funny because there were a bunch, obviously, a lot of. It's Mike's college friend. So a lot of guys there. And there I noticed they were all like doing this. The Zen thing. Right. Which I had no. I felt like 700 years old.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because I had never heard of it before and I had no. And they were like explaining it to me like I'm someone's grandmother.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And I'm like, wait, wait, wait, wait. So it's like chewing tobacco, but like the new chewing tobacco. Like, is it less disgusting than chewing tobacco? Give me the rundown of you. How long Barely has been around for a very long time.

[B]

I would say this to me, you know, to join you in this old, you know, old person's home we now live in.

[A]

You moved to Florida. I moved to the suburbs.

[B]

Now that we're a hundred together, I'm just. I just had a vision of us doing this podcast when we're 80, when. When he Snapchats you. That means that he is not in for the relationship. You know, like, I. But exactly this, to me, Zins was kind of the first Gen Z thing to me like that, like, you know, that came to my desk. This was the first, like, very much theirs thing that was like an adult and the way I know Zins. And maybe we can. Maybe V can pop in to let us. Like, with a definition. It is. I mean, this has existed forever, but it's a. Basically a packet that contains the nicotine that you would get from doing chewing tobacco. So it doesn't smell.

[A]

It doesn't.

[B]

It doesn't. It's not a mess in your mouth. It's a cleaner version, but they've had these like, like, packets of nicotine packets that you could put in your, like, lip, like, has always existed. This is kind of like. And it came out of, I think Finland or like somewhere like Norway or something like that. And it's a. It's, you know, it's chewing tobacco of a certain sort, but it's like a packet and it's cleaner and it has a mint and it's got a flavor. It's.

[A]

And it's like a jewel for chewing tobacco, right? Jewel version of.

[B]

Yeah. And, you know, I had heard about it because there's these packets. It's very big.

[A]

Do women do it as well?

[B]

It's not as female, I don't think. I think a female version. Yeah, but this is cleaner. But I would say, yeah, I have a definition here. Zins stylized in all caps as Zinn Zyn Swedish brand of nicotine pouches. Zin pouches are designed to be placed between the gums and the lip, allowing nicotine to be absorbed into the bloodstream through the soft tissue. So basically, it's a way of getting a jolt, getting a little bit of a buzz. And it's a little secretive a little. But also it's become like. It's like a big golf thing too. Like, it's a very male thing. It's. You see it like the Zinn's packaging Is a round. Like, almost like maybe now I sound old.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Explaining it.

[A]

No, it looks like a little. It looks like it has Altoids.

[B]

Yeah, it looks like an Altoids package. And, you know, there was an embarrassment of having the round thing in your pocket. Like, people would see that, be like, oh, you're on Zins. It's kind of got this fratty culture around it and that again, that kind of crosses into the golf world. But yeah, this was very Gen Z to me. When I had found out about it, it was like their thing. But men are into it. Yeah. Like, if you do it, you do it like you're. I've never done it.

[A]

Huh. Well, let's say you were on a date with a woman and she pulled.

[B]

Out a huge lipazins. Yeah.

[A]

Red flag, deal breaker.

[B]

I. I wouldn't. I'd be like, I would be more shocked and, and interested than anything else, you know? You know. Like, how about you? What. What was the talk at the wedding about it?

[A]

I guess similar to, I guess what you're saying in terms of like, these guys. These guys were like, not Gen Z. They were definitely like mid to late 30s.

[B]

Right. No, it start. I definitely. Men are doing it like, as they get older, but like, it started with this is what the kids are doing. And it's like, it definitely was like a way, like, it's no smoke, no vapor discreet. And it's like for nicotine. Yeah, it's. It was meant as like to quit cigarettes, but then it got huge as just like this like kind of like a buzz, like a micro buzz of sorts. And I think that, like, goes with like, people are drinking less like, and looking for, like, options to have a little bit of like a. A pep given to them without really, you know, going into drugs and alcohol. Maybe, like, that was the draw, right?

[A]

Yeah. You know, I'm trying to think, what would I think if a guy was doing it? I don't think it'd be like a look. I would love. Especially like, the context matters. Like, if you can't. If you're doing a first date, can't get through a first date without it.

[B]

Right. You couldn't put yourself together.

[A]

That seems like a lot.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. I also think there's something almost like the reason. And again, I'm not saying smoking is cool, although we do agree smoking is cool.

[B]

It is cool.

[A]

I do think there's something about, like, the openness of smoking a cigarette, which is like, I don't give a. Which is almost like what makes it cool as opposed to the Zen thing, which is, like, a little secretive or something.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Or like, the. Even the dual thing is like, you know, you're like, quietly.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Doing something.

[B]

I don't know, quietly sucking on a, On a, you know, a hard drive. A hard drive. Right. Usb, Whatever. No, I, I could see Zins being cool and not cool. I, I, you know, when I see it, when I see a guy doing, I'm like, oh. I never think of it as, like, a secretive thing as much as it's like, I'm just trying to get that buzz, man. I'm just chilling after a hard day. Like, I don't see Zins is being, like, taken, like, to get you through as much as it is to, like, chill after. Like, you've been dealing with some, I don't know, like, the golf element to.

[A]

It in the same way a cigarette is.

[B]

Right, right, right. I would say. I guess that's why it doesn't lose coolness for doing the Zins. What. What was the talk around it at the wedding where, like, during the wedding, like, during the ceremony.

[A]

Not during the ceremony that I saw anyway, but, like, cocktail hour. I saw it, and that's why I asked a guy, like, what is that? And then I noticed they were, like, sharing them around, like, at the party.

[B]

Yeah, they're so.

[A]

I was just, like, very intrigued. Yeah, they're like, they were, like, socially discussed.

[B]

Yeah. They're a community. There seems to be a community to it. There is a, like, I'm in on the Zins thing. It did. I, I mean, to back you up, it does feel very much Gen Z. Like, it's like, I, I heard about it, but I, I, Again, tobacco pouches did exist before, but it was more tobacco. This is like pure nicotine. Like, this is like, forget the tobacco. Forget all that stuff. Just give me the buzz that I would get from the nicotine.

[A]

Higher tech.

[B]

Right, Right.

[A]

Yeah. And then, and then, I mean, we're gonna review this GQ article. GQ came out with, like, a men's etiquette guide. Things I saw in there was, like, something around Zinn etiquette. And I was like, this was the day. This was like, the. I read this the day after I got back from this wedding. I'm like, am I just missed an entire subculture of, like, going on, like, now? I'm like, I. I don't know. So I, I felt like I needed to. To get some clarification.

[B]

Yeah, I, it's definitely a thing. I think the etiquette of anything that's in your mouth. Like, I think Zen, Zins and gum. You know, there would be a similar. Like, just throwing it on the ground to get rid of it. Like, would look gross and have a look to it. Like, that is right. Not becoming.

[A]

There's a discretion.

[B]

Yeah. I think there's got to be. Especially when you're taking something out of your lip. I don't know. You're me right now. You're making me want to try it this week. Like, I feel like I should be trying it. Like, like, I don't know. This is how.

[A]

Like, that's a good YouTube exclusive. Jared tries Jared's.

[B]

How about we do that? I'll try.

[A]

Is it zin or zins?

[B]

It's Zins or Zin. Z Y N. If you're in a situation where you wouldn't smoke or vape, don't pop Zen either. Go to the bathroom, remove your zin. That's the gq.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. I, I, I guess I wouldn't want to take my gum out at the table either.

[A]

Right. You know, like anything you're chewing on or, like, if you had a sucking candy or something.

[B]

Right. You wouldn't like, whatever it was, spit it out and let's start the date. You know what?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So was the wedding anyway. Yeah. Well, good music. Band or DJ? These are all questions. Like, my grandma.

[A]

Good DJ, great DJ. A lot of, a lot of, like, 2000s house, which is, like, great. I'm very into. Can't. Can't go to a party without levels for me.

[B]

Got a party, gotta hit it. What did you call it on Bet you called it something.

[A]

It was like, levels. Song of our generation.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I don't know. Like, Both the Beethoven, 7:6, whatever it is.

[B]

Did you know anyone else at the wedding? Like, did you? It was his Miami crew, which is not his Long island crew. So it's like a, like a standard deviation away from his friend group. Yeah.

[A]

I didn't know that many people. I knew. Like, I had met some people. Like, I didn't. There was no one there that I had met more than like, three times.

[B]

So as, as a couple, is it like, we're gonna party? This is our wedding now. We don't really have to socialize as much as we maybe would at another wedding. Is it more you two against the world? Is it?

[A]

No. I think, I bet I was kind of like, I, I made an effort to be more social because I know he, he doesn't see these friends as much as he sees others. Wanted him to be able to, like, Catch up and see everyone. And like I made, you know, I was very chatty with the table and was kind of like okay with him going to do his own, you know, catch ups and stuff, whether I joined him or didn't.

[B]

So he was. That you were the, the, the cruise ship and he was the tender going out to all the islands to try and make sure he got it all in.

[A]

Exactly. And then I was like, I was like, you could go to the after. I, I was, I'm like, I don't need to go to an after party for like a crew that's not like my crew really.

[B]

So after you don't even want to check it out. I'm, I'm going to the after party. I need to see what the food is. Like, I need to see.

[A]

You're going to get like the sliders.

[B]

Yeah, I gotta see what they're doing. I gotta judge everything. I don't just judge a wedding. I gotta like take in the whole like cocktail hour. Again, like a lot of this is dealing with food. But like I want to know if the DJ change were there giveaways. I, I just have to know. I can't be told. Like if someone said to me like, yeah, they had waffle fries at the after party, I'd be like, oh, it's gonna like ruin my month that I missed the waffle fries. They were any good or not.

[A]

Yeah, that's fair. That's fair. Yeah. I mean I told him he could go to that. I was like, I think tapped out after like the wedding. But he, he was like, he came back with me and then he was gonna like re. Go out and then he just never, then he never did. There was like a miscommunication about where the after party was.

[B]

I hate when there's not a well planned after party.

[A]

Yeah. If you're listening, I'm sure it was lovely plan and we just missed the memo.

[B]

Well, I don't like that. It's like a word of mouth thing. Like, hey, tell us where the after party is. Like be up front. This doesn't have to. It's not like a speakeasy.

[A]

Like, and, and that's the thing about after parties is I feel like they're always kind of a little bit. They're like not like publicized. They're not like on the invitation. You know what I mean?

[B]

No, I. Listen, I hate what's going on with these after parties because you're right, it's not on the invitation. And then it's like this hearsay thing. I think there's an after party, I think, and it has to be. And it's like, kind of like, supposed to be like, this surprise thing, but, like, we're over the mountain of this being a surprise. You're either having one or you're not. So.

[A]

So it's frequent enough that it's not that big of a surprise that you can't just write, after party ends at whatever time. Here, it's over here, right?

[B]

Or just like, Just like, don't have do. Like, what I hate is that sometimes it'll be like, I. I don't know if there's an afterparty, but everyone's going to this bar. And, like, it almost feels like the bride and groom are trying to, like, siphon off of a hang to call it their after party. And it's like, you know what it is?

[A]

I think it's with. It's. If there's old people who are invited who you like, don't. I don't think, probably wouldn't go to the after party, but you don't really want to think that they're. That you don't want them to think that they're supposed to go by. By publicizing it.

[B]

Right. You don't want to make it someone's obligation. Like, I. I think it has to.

[A]

Like, grandma, you're not invited, really, to the after party.

[B]

I don't know. I. I sometimes it feels. My brother's wedding, it was like, in another after party. Yeah, they had an afterparty. It was in another room in the hotel. And, like, it was like a definitive, like, hey, we're gonna continue the party here. Like, I think that means. I think there's like, a fear of paying for it is really the actual fear. It's like, you know, oh, we're doing the afterparty in this other room. And, like, the, you know, like, it's all about expectations. So if you were like, hey, we are doing an after party. It's going to be at this bar after the wedding. You're more than welcome. It's a cash bar. You're going to have to pay for your own drinks, but we're going to have some pizza out. That's like, okay, good. Good to know. Like, I like to know that, like, I think some people are fearful of putting their name on it because now they're like the couple with the cash bar at their wedding. It's like, no. Anyone who would say that is not really being nuanced and thoughtful about reviewing your wedding. So I think there's that fear.

[A]

I agree. I think the more information people. So that people can know is always better. Although I had a like 20 page packet for my wedding, which you definitely did not read.

[B]

My mom one word.

[A]

Neither did my mom. She was like. She was like, why would anyone read this? You and my mom. Birds of a feather. Yeah. So. Yeah, but it was fun. How was your weekend?

[B]

My weekend was. There was some work involved. I. So I came. I'm in la.

[A]

Did you get. Did you get rejected as part of your job?

[B]

I. You know, it's been on my. It's. It's been on my mind a lot actually. The get rejected thing, it's kind of hard to do. I mean, like, I. I'm not saying. So for those that might be new.

[A]

Here, you seen me, right?

[B]

Who would reject this? Well, that's kind of the fear. For those that are new here, we have a challenge that I'm gonna like, put myself out there to try and be rejected. And, you know, there is the thought of, like, what if it works out? Now I have to like, deal with this. This is like, you know, it's like, hey, I'll come to the afterparty then. Like, good. Yeah, we actually need some help with that. And I'm like, ah, I just signed up for a job I didn't want to have. So it's like, yeah, why don't you go and like, dm, like some celebrity to be like. Or like, not celebrity, but like someone that's like out of your league, quote unquote, via my view of league, whatever. And then all of a sudden they're like. And all I keep thinking about is like. Then they say, yes, and like, I have to like, pursue this. And it's like this kind of brings up my own fears, you know, like, of like, okay, Jared, you asked for it. It's like, you know, like, it's like a genie wish gone bad. Like, ah, I'm gonna go approach the hottest woman in the world. And then they go, here she is, all yours. And you're like, oh, my God, I guess life has to start now and I gotta be a dad. And like, all this, you know, like, I. That's kind of where my brain goes.

[A]

Weirdly to me that says, like, it's not about the woman you're dating then at all. Right? Because I'm basically like, go shoot for the stars. And you're like, I don't want any stuff. I don't want anyone.

[B]

I don't want that star. I don't want Orion'. Belt. I don't want the shooting start. Yeah, no, this is. It does reveal something. Like, hey, approach anyone. You're like, anyone would make me miserable. You know, like, it does. That's kind of the reveal of this. Like, I don't know. So I haven't been dumped or turned down. And then. And then, you know what? It.

[A]

Why don't you. Why don't you shoot so high that you're likely to get dumped? They reject you.

[B]

You know what else happens?

[A]

There's got to be some level of person where you're like, they're probably not.

[B]

Nobody's too good gonna be into it. Yeah. Well, then. Then there's also this, like, this other side of it. There's the side of, like, what if it works out? Then, like, oh, my God, I have to start my life now, and this is, like, a problem to deal with. And then it also kind of, like, has shifted. How I look at the people, like, who are reaching out to me. I'm like, anyone who I'm going out with that like, came my way, I'm like, I don't know. I. I didn't even think to get turned down by them, you know? Like, I. It kind of hurts that, you know, like, it makes everyone untouchable. So I don't know. I'm dealing with that. That. That has affected me. I'm not.

[A]

Have you thought about the possibility. Have you thought about the possibility that that person won't answer or will reject you?

[B]

Yeah, of course. And that, to me, is, like, the best case scenario. Then I get to be a victim. Then I get to, like, cry about it and wallow and go.

[A]

Right?

[B]

Yeah, that would be amazing.

[A]

So I'm saying, pick someone where that's likely to happen.

[B]

Right. I. I mean, I. Then I get into this, like, you know, paralysis of choice type of thing where I'm like, anyone. Like, I just, like. Like, I guess, like, at that point, I should just. Me, you know, mess. I. But I also want to be turned down. Like, I don't want to message someone that's, like, so crazy and stupid to message that. Like, I don't get an answer at all. You know?

[A]

They're not gonna answer. Right, Right. You know, you're not gonna message. Beyonce married. Bad example, you know?

[B]

Right. But Beyonce's a good example as far as, like, how stupid that would be. And also, like, I. I. You know, I guess what the only good part about this is, I'm realizing I'm not that delusional because there are people I'm like, come on, I'm not gonna message that person. I'm, you know, Beyonce, Are you out of your mind? You know, like, at least I know, I feel like I know where I stand, which is nice. But I am in la.

[A]

Well, that's why, if you know where you stand, then go like a little out of your reach. A little out of your reach.

[B]

Right. I'm, that's a hard thing to admit to, like, to figure out. But I, I, I'm in la. I did this event on Saturday where I hosted a show where people pitched their friends.

[A]

Oh, that's cool.

[B]

So like a woman would come on stage and be like, this is my friend, you know, so and so and do a whole PowerPoint with them. And then people in the crowd could be like, I want to date them. And I like it. It was, I feel like I've heard of these.

[A]

Right.

[B]

They're happening around the country. I've kind of like, I'm sure you've gotten them sent to you in the same way I've gotten them sent to me. Like, of like, look at this. What do. And I think we've talked about it here on the podcast with like the pitch my friend idea.

[A]

I like it because it's like, it's less sad than pitching yourself.

[B]

Right, right. The, yeah, the world. There's always the thing of like, you know, when they pitch their friend. I think the, the worst part of the pitch is like, they never say what's wrong with them and there's wrong.

[A]

And to say they're trying to sell them.

[B]

Right. I think it would be a better sale if they got like a more rounded or a more well rounded sale. If someone's like, here are the cons. Like you're going to have to deal with like, Right. These six things. I don't know. Like, I ask you. Sure.

[A]

When you got your, when you got your Jeep. Sorry to interrupt. When you got your Jeep, was that how it was pitched to you? Like, is a gray car, it's got xyz, this mileage, blah, blah, blah.

[B]

But, but here.

[A]

Or did.

[B]

Right. I would know.

[A]

Or did you not get any of that?

[B]

But in my mind that was already happening. I was still going. But, you know, the car, you know, doesn't give blow jobs and the, and you know, but like, but you're gonna have a, you know, you're gonna have a two door and the top might be annoying. Might be annoying. Right. They, the top might, you know, all these things.

[A]

Right. But I'm saying the salesperson is probably not Saying that to you.

[B]

Right.

[A]

They want to close the sale.

[B]

I guess when the salesperson at the difference at a car place is like, you can have these better options that we also sell. You know, like, if you, you know what I mean? Like, with a, with a person, you can't be like, well, this person, they, you know, they hate going out on weekends. But I got this other person that if you want weekends, you know, like, if this is something you really need in your life, you can go out with, like, you know, you know, Laura who, who loves going out on Saturday, but Laura's not gonna be up early in the morning. You do like your mornings.

[A]

The inventory is not, is not exactly the same.

[B]

Right. It's an inventory of one, and it's like, right. I don't know. I was thinking of, like, if someone pitched me, I'm like, there's, there's enough to like, go, you know, if you don't want to hear about yourself on a podcast, like, don't date this guy. I don't know. It was fun. I, I, I will say these dating events, and much like we're going to talk on our Friday feels episode about you've got Mail, but, like, not to get into you've got Mail. But I think the dating events are getting, like, you know, let me, let me just say this without sounding like a big piece of. They're getting cooler. There's a lot less.

[A]

Sounds nice.

[B]

I've been to dating events 10 years ago, and I was a dating events. There's a stigma, less nerds, there's more normies, more people you would meet. Because I think people are really trying. Yeah, the evolution right in the beginning. And that's why you've Got Mail. Like, I think, like, that movie, like, took away a lot of the stigma of, like, it's a bunch of losers, you know, like.

[A]

Right. Yeah, and we'll get to that because I have thoughts on that, too. So we're gonna. That's Friday's episode, so stay tuned.

[B]

That's a good way to tease Friday's episode. So if you want to be a part of it in the moment, watch you've got Mail. Make sure you've watched that movie or do a rewatch. If you're flying Delta at all from now till then, it's on your flight. That's how I watched it. So what are we talking about today, Jordan? Otherwise, when this comes out, I'm going to be in Richmond, Virginia, Washington, D.C. tickets are going, it's a big theater. We're going to Fill it up. So get your tickets now for Washington, D.C. richmond, Virginia. I'm coming to the Carolinas. I'm coming to. Chicago's almost sold out, so get your tickets. Jared free dot com. Milwaukee, Minneapolis. These are all cities I'm coming to before the end of the year. Fort Lauderdale, Miami. These are all like, Fort Lauderdale, Miami are Thanksgiving weekend. So if you're coming down to southeast Florida to, like, visit grandparents or aunts and uncles or whatever for Thanksgiving, Friday and Saturday, there's options for you to get out of your house and do something a little different and cool, or maybe bring your parents and I can talk to all of you at once without you having to talk to your family. So, like, that's a good option, right?

[A]

And your parents will be there, right?

[B]

My parents will be at the Fort Lauderdale show. The Miami. They'll. They'll go, we're coming. And then they'll go. And then they'll go. It's a little far. We saw it last night. No, but I know Fort Lauderdale. My dad has already told me we're gonna have. He's like, we gotta get a lot of tickets. I need a lot of tickets. And I'm like, well, I also have to make money from this, you know, show, like. And he's like, well, we have a lot of people we, like, have made promises to. And I'm like. And my worst fear is, like, a whole section of the audience is just my parents and their friends. Like, I. That, like, this happens in Stand Up a lot where you'll have, like, I had a bachelorette party at my show in Kansas City. And, like, that sounds like a nightmare. It can be. It can go both ways. But it goes the way of the bachelorette. Like, a bachelorette party is only as fun as the bachelorette is what you, like, quickly realize. So, like, they were told to quiet down and the bachelorette started crying. So then the whole group was like, we're out. Like, every. If she's angry, we're all angry.

[A]

Why was she crying?

[B]

Because I think what happens, and you can tell me if I'm wrong, is like, this is my bachelorette party. This is my one night. I'm never gonna get this again. Like, you don't do a bachelorette party because you think you're gonna have a second bachelorette party. And I think if one thing goes off, you're like, it's a tight wire act. I think for some women, not all, but, like, this is the night, this is your weekend. And if one thing goes awry, oh, My God, it can fall apart very quickly. Like, emotionally. Like, I think it's like, oh, my God, the weekend's ruined. Everyone's mad at me. This is gonna be. My bachelorette party isn't gonna be the best weekend of my life.

[A]

And Right.

[B]

I think she was told, like, hey, can you quiet down? She's like, oh, my God, it's over. We're having the worst time. Everyone hates me. And the alcohol is mixed into, like. I just see her wiping away tears at the table, and I'm trying to, like, make them happier. And I'm doing the show, and, like, I could feel that I've. There's a table of 13 people, so I'm like. I could feel a whole section of the room is just a dead drum. Like, you're playing a drum that doesn't work. And I'm like. As I'm, like, doing the jokes, I'm like, something is off. There's, like, the left side of the room is just not laughing. And I just look over, and they're, like, tending to her. They're like, it's gonna be okay, Stacy. Like, no, no, it's fine. We're all having fun. And I'm like. And then the people around them are like, you know, their attention's divided. They're, like, hearing her get consoled while also, I'm trying to tell jokes. And it got to a point where, like, they were like, we have to leave. And a table of 13 got up in the middle of my set. Like, imagine the whole.

[A]

Like, that's crazy.

[B]

Like, you can't do a show. Like, I. I listen.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, I love a good bachelorette party activity. I don't think a comedy show would be my move.

[B]

You are not insulting me at all. I think I agree with you.

[A]

If. Yummy. Yeah. If I'm on a bachelorette party and I'm looking to get drunk, and we're girls, so we talk a lot. I'm looking for something that's interactive, that's, like, vocal, that's, verbal. That's not, like, a quiet activity when I'm drinking and out with my. With 13 of my female friends.

[B]

You couldn't be more. Right? Like, I'm not. I'm not sitting here being like, come to my show and shut the up. Like, to 13 women. Like. And I tried. I tried to get them involved. I was like, tell us when you're getting married. Like, I. But there's a point where, like, there's 200 other people there looking to have a show that Wasn't bachelorette party. Like, they didn't buy a ticket to watch a bachelorette party. So, like, you do have to, like, kind of, like, shove off of them to go into the show. And when they stop laughing. But then they got up to leave, they're like, this is it. Like. And I said to them, I go, this is the best thing for all of us. You guys should go have your fun. We'll have our fun. Go ahead. And I don't know. I don't know. If you ever watch a group of 13 women try to, like, leave a room, it is like a parade leaving. It was like, it took 30 minutes. They're all looking for purses. People can't find their wallets. It was dark in there. It was taking so long that I got annoyed, and I started calling them the unfuckables and that they were the most miserable people. And then I got annoyed. So now, because me making fun of them, and now I'm making fun of a bachelorette at her bachelorette party. Like, she's like, yeah, my bachelorette party was ruined. Some guy just called me unfuckable. Like, the weekend before I'm getting married.

[A]

Like, one of the monster.

[B]

One of the women stood up. She's like, my God, we're trying. And I go, that voice. I'll never get erect again. Like, I started making fun of her voice. It turned into, like, the most horrific. I'm laughing because it was so awful. And, like, people in their seats were, like, laughing, but, like, putting their face in their shirt, like, type of laughing. Like, it was like, they were like. And I kept saying the audience. I was like, start laughing. Don't. Don't hide. I need you. Like, I had, like, pick up the audience. It was so. Anyone who was in Kansas City at that show, I hope you had a good time. It was one woman came back, they left. And then 10 minutes later, I go back into my act. We're fine. One of the women comes back, and she starts searching for her, like, wallet that she lost. There's just, like, one of the bachelorettes with, like, a penis straw hat, like, milling around, and the whole room is looking pena.

[A]

Straw hat?

[B]

Yeah. And the whole room is looking at her, and I'm like, are you serious? I was like, you have. Are you out of your mind? And she just looks at me and gives me the finger. Standing in the middle of the room.

[A]

Like, this is not into a fight with 13 women.

[B]

Yeah, 13 women are walking around being like, jared Freed is the worst comedian alive. We Hate him.

[A]

Well, I hope they all have tick tock accounts. I can't wait to see the viral videos.

[B]

Well, that was the thing that pissed me off the most. We didn't even tape the shows. So I don't even have it on video. So no one will know. So what are we talking about today? Sorry to take us off. I didn't know.

[A]

Let's get into our show. That's a no. I'm glad. I'm glad I got the. You'll be in Miami and Fort Lauderdale. That's all to say if you're a.

[B]

Bachelorette party of 13 women, come on out, I'll call you unfuckable.

[A]

Don't come there. I would never go to a comedy show in Miami for my bachelorette.

[B]

No, it's not the move. Not the move. On Thanksgiving weekend. Yeah.

[A]

On things. Yeah. You have bachelorette party and Thanksgiving weekend. Everyone already hates you.

[B]

Right. We are sponsored by Hungry Root. We're big fans of Hungry Root here on the show. Don't you think, Jordan?

[A]

I love Hungry Root.

[B]

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[A]

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[B]

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[A]

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[B]

What are we talking about?

[A]

All right. Hello, J and J. Longtime fan and listener. I, 26, female, have been dating this guy, 32, male, for about two months now. Eight dates sounds about right. Date a week. Yeah, some context. Met on hinge but learned we work in the same office, not on the same team or floor, so I don't really ever see him there. Eight months ago he broke up with his ex of four years. They had been living together for two. He said that he realized she wasn't the right person for him and they split amicably. Dates have been very nice and thoughtful. However, he is not pushed to be intimate, which at this stage I wouldn't mind. To me, that's a natural next step in a relationship. So they haven't had sex?

[B]

No sex.

[A]

He's not put he hasn't Put right. He hasn't put. Hasn't been pushing for sex.

[B]

He's being very careful.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

What is that, Elmer?

[A]

My question is.

[B]

Beware. Right? Zins and Elmer Fud. Really quite a title.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. My question is we are now at eight dates, two months, and I'm at the point where I want to know where this. Where his head is at, but I feel like I can't ask that without him thinking, I want a relationship right now. It also seems like a bold question to ask if we haven't even slept together yet. I just want to know that he still sees this going somewhere. And honestly, if he's still seeing other people, because I am not. To me, that's dating intentionally. Overall, this guy has always been respectful, mature, and consistent. But I still feel confused. At what point do I ask for more clarity versus just rolling with it?

[B]

It.

[A]

Is it just a slow burn or is it going to be wasted time? All right, let's. Let's go through this conversation. I'll be her, you be him.

[B]

It's a great text, but it. It.

[A]

Yes. I'm glad we have the raw materials.

[B]

Very relatable. Okay, so I'm him. Ready?

[A]

Yep.

[B]

Okay, cool. Yes. I'll let you know. Also, just kind of curious where you would say you're at in your relationship goals. I asked because I want to let you know where I'm at. What? Which I would say is not totally ready to get back into a relationship this quickly after my previous one, but wanted to date intentionally to find someone I would be interested in being with, essentially. I just don't want to rush into anything, but I enjoy hanging out and want to keep hanging out. Happy to talk about that further. I just want to be transparent. Okay.

[A]

Okay. I appreciate the transparency. I'm certainly intentional about who I spend my time with, but I'm not wanting to jump into a new relationship anytime soon either. I'm happy with my life right now, and while I absolutely want to find the right person for me, I'm definitely a slow burner and I don't want to force anything. That being said, I do like you and I want to keep spending time with you to see where this could go. I'm a naturally affectionate person, but will always be upfront about where my head's at, and I hope you will too.

[B]

Okay, cool. Thanks for sharing your thoughts. This gets very business like. Sounds like we are on the same page. I think getting past my home search and purchase and getting back to more normal schedule will help you probably Feel that way, too, I'm sure. How was the rest of your weekend? Well, good thing that conversation is over. We're all cleared up. Everyone knows what everyone's exactly.

[A]

Everyone knows exactly what page.

[B]

I have a question for you. Do you feel you know where he stands or where she stands after that conversation?

[A]

I know where she stands after her email to us. I don't know where she stands after this conversation.

[B]

Two very different things.

[A]

And it. Yes, I feel like I know where he stands after this conversation, but only because I've been doing this podcast with you for almost eight years.

[B]

Right. This is. This is a lot of saying nothing and a lot of him really getting.

[A]

Like, a lot of proactively. Yes, this is a lot of proactive getting ahead of. Of a conversation that he suspects is going to come down the line.

[B]

Right. And he wasn't wrong. She's emailing us. He almost got ahead of it. He. This, to me, shows one thing is very clear. Men have way more emotional intelligence than they're being given credit for because he reaches out. He knows eight dates, two months. Proactive. Let me get ahead of this and make sure that I can be. Continue being casual with her without getting called out on not noticing that we're being casual. And it's been going on eight months. Like, he knows as much as you know. No one's that stupid. No one's that smart. You're not smarter than him. He's not dumber than you. You're about the same. So I. I think that's like a big reveal of this whole thing, right?

[A]

I mean, what he doesn't say. And tell me, tell me if this is what he means. Because in my mind, cynically, I'm thinking this is what he means. But maybe I'm wrong. What I'm hearing is I'd like to continue casually seeing you. I don't want to be held. I probably. This is probably not going to be a relationship for me, and I don't really see it heading there, but I like hanging out with the no strings attached, so I want to be upfront about that.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, yeah, in as many words, that's really what he's saying. I would add on, he might not even, like, be saying, I want to be casual as much as he's saying, hey, I'm aware that you and I have been seeing each other two months. I'm also aware that I am not going to get more serious than we are right now. And I'm ever. He. I don't think he would even Acknowledge ever. I think, I think hits him saying, I'm cool if you're cool, I'm cool to keep doing this. If you're cool to keep doing this. And that's kind of what he's trying to get across and.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Being a little bit vague a lot. He's being a lot vague. And for good reason. He, you know, he's being as vague as she is. She took his vague and raised him vague because.

[A]

Right. Well, that's her issue.

[B]

That's her issue because with us, she wrote something very specific. I want to see that he still sees us going somewhere. And honestly, if he's still seeing other people, because I am not. Not to me, that is dating intentionally. That's the part that gets you answers. So, like, she wrote what she wants to us. To us. Like if she. Right. If she had gotten back to his vague with, I'm only seeing you and I'm looking to date intentionally, which means seeing one person to me and having.

[A]

This beheading towards a relationship.

[B]

Right. And, and, and I'd like. And I. And the other vulnerable thing for her to write again. Like, we're, we're asking for her to be way more vulnerable than he's willing to be. But, like, I see you as someone I could be in a relationship with. Like, that's what she's saying. She wouldn't continue if she didn't.

[A]

And if we're, and if. Yes. And if we're going to keep dating, it's with the intention that it, it will eventually end that way.

[B]

Right. And. And here's what nobody wants to hear. Right? Well, this is, this is what nobody wants to hear, is that when you date someone and it's like real. It happens quickly, quicker than you thought it could have been. And to me, these are two people who are really nice and like each other, but they're not really like, you know, falling, you know, which is like, it can go. It can happen the way they're doing it. I think they're just trying to like, elongate. I don't know. Do you see this as like.

[A]

Can I ask.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Can I ask why he's not trying to sleep with her? They've been on eight dates. It's been two months. What is he looking for here? Or is he saying this so that he can sleep with her, but he's laid it. He's cards out before sleeping with her so he. She can't say, I. You slept with me and you didn't tell me you weren't looking for A relationship.

[B]

You know, this was a hard email for me to read because, like, I've been in this scenario so many times, and I was like, I. And I, like, tried to, like, put it on. Do you know what I mean? Like, sometimes I'll read these, and I'm like, all right, it's me. Why am I doing this? Because you're right. It seems stupid. She's, like, letting him off the hook is kind of what she thinks she's doing. She's like, let me know. She's basically like, let me know now that you don't want to, like, be in a relationship, and I'll be cool with it. Just like, let me go. Please let me go. Chop my head off. And I've been in this situation where it's like, I'm, like, sitting there being like, I like this person. We have a good time together. I could dive right in and, like, we could just make this happen. But there's something like, I'm fighting against. And then he blames, you know, buying a home or whatever, you know, in home search, which is. It's because the. The idea that you can't have a girlfriend or get to know someone while also buying a home is fraudulent and.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So why continue? This is.

[A]

No one's too busy to date someone that they really like.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And want to date.

[B]

But. And then I. But I look at this and I go, I've done what he's done. I've said these words like. And you go, why did I say these words? And it's like, well, Jared, if you didn't want to date them, then why continue to do this half thing? And in the same way that, like, a lot of women write to us, and they're like, I went on the second date. The first one wasn't great, but I won the second because they check a lot of boxes, and I think a lot of people don't have the confidence to just go, this isn't right. They go, we are. You know, they are great. You know, they. Why would I. Who am I to turn this person down or, like, to not keep seeking this out? I think the sleeping with each other thing gets in the way because a lot more men can sleep with a woman without really getting emotionally attached. But I think he is on the same page of her as, like, I do want to seek this out, because why wouldn't I? You're a great person, and I'm attracted to you. What am I. Why would I even, like, toss this away?

[A]

Right? But then. But that's that's worse than doing either way, than fully committing or fully being out.

[B]

Well, it's being selfish. It's going to. I got someone here with me that's like giving me attention. So let's like see this out a little bit longer. Like to me, this, his whole text is buying time. Like I wrote this down like where my head's at. I don't want to deal with it. And you want to be dealt with. Like she says, I'm not looking to be bold and say that I want a relationship. But like that's not even like the point. He could feel that you wanted more than what you were getting. That's why he sent the text before you even brought it up. And now this is his way of being like, I know I have an issue. I can't deal with it right now. I don't want to deal with it right now. So I'm gonna like buy myself time is what he's doing.

[A]

Right? I wouldn't give it, I wouldn't give him the time.

[B]

Right.

[A]

To buy. I would say if you actually are dating intentionally and looking for a relationship with someone that you've been seeing for two months and they've said, they've said to you pretty clearly, I'm not looking for that, then I think you need to, that she needs to say what she wants. Give him maybe one more chance to, to evaluate that. And if he's not, if he doesn't see that going towards there, then I think that she should cut her losses.

[B]

Well, if she wants answers because it's like, it's harder to do like to like take that advice than to, to you know, give like, you know, just. Of course if she wants answers, I am only dating you will be a very powerful thing to say to him. Not, not like, because she, she kind of half assed this whole fucking thing.

[A]

She said something that wasn't true. She was like, I'm. What did she say? I'm. I don't want to jump into a new relationship anytime soon either. Not true, not true. You would like to be in a relationship with this person relatively soon.

[B]

Right? This is like, this is where the, this is where the conversation, It's a miscommunication, you know, like she doesn't want. She's like, they have a different idea of what a relationship is like in her mind. A relationship is like, I'm not looking to like talk about living together. And it's like, no one's saying that about you. You're looking to talk about having a Standing Saturday with each other. Like, that's what you're looking for, right? Like. Like, you're looking for not having to wonder if you guys are hanging out the next week. That's what you're looking for. So, like, I think she's too far ahead. And then he's probably too far ahead, too. They both, you know, the miscommunication of what a relationship is like. A relationship two months in is we plan to see each other this weekend, and if we're not, then maybe one's gonna be mad at the other. Like. Like, that's like a. A more realistic representation, you know?

[A]

Sounds beautiful, right?

[B]

But it's like the, The. The idea that we have to get any more ahead of that and be like, no, I'm in love with you. And this is, you know, is. Is not real. Like. And she avoids that if she just says, I want I am dating only you to see if we can be something, Period. End of sentence. He's going to have to come back with either good news or disappointing news.

[A]

Right. You're going to have to force him to commit to you or break up with you.

[B]

Right. Because if he. It's really hard and really probably not likely that he's going to come back to you and go, well, that sounds great. I'm. I'm happy for you. I'm dating multiple people while you're dating just me. But that's great for us. Like, he's not going to say that. That he's gonna say.

[A]

What's he gonna say?

[B]

He's gonna say, what would you say if someone said, I'm dating just you? I would go, I am not dating just you. And that means maybe that you're farther along than I am. And maybe for that reason, we should probably end.

[A]

Right? Yeah. And that's a good thing. Right, for both of you.

[B]

Right. And it gets you what you want. And I just think for this person that's writing in, like, the idea that I don't. To say I don't want a relationship yet you want a version of a relationship. That's not true, right?

[A]

Yeah. You're saying. And she's saying. I get why she's saying that. Because she's like, I don't want him to think that I'm, like, obsessed with him or that I, like, am deeper into this than he is, but it's like, you are, and that's okay.

[B]

Right.

[A]

It doesn't mean, like, you're a loser.

[B]

Right.

[A]

I mean that he's gonna want you to date you less he already thinks that that's what you want, right?

[B]

He already knows. He's. He's getting in touch with you about what you guys are, right? You know, like he knows. And that's the thing about like, like she wrote something also very specific in her email about like, well, he just got out of a four year relationship and realized it wasn't the one. And it's like just because he got out of a 4 relationship because he realized that they weren't the right match for him, doesn't mean he now knows what his right match is. If anything, that story just tells me it took him four years to tell someone that they weren't the right match for him. And that's how he is and who he is.

[A]

Right?

[B]

And that's a could date you for.

[A]

Four years and then tell you that.

[B]

Right? He's just repeating the process right now too. Like he's doing the same things he's done.

[A]

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[B]

All right, let's do a Nicky or Picky. You ready?

[A]

Yep. Let's do it.

[B]

Send yours in uuppetches.com uuppetches.com icky or picky is when you're dating someone you get the ick. Are you gonna dump them as and then would that be just you being pickiers or a real ick that you should end it because as of okay, let's find out. Long time listener, first time writer in I need your expert advice on a hairy situation.

[A]

Huh?

[B]

I, 34 female, went on two dates with a truly lovely man. 34 male. We're talking 10 out of 10 chemistry, non stop banter. We share similar lifestyles. We both acknowledged how rare of a connection that seems to be and are very comfortable with each other. We also have had a great kiss already. On our first date we ended up having drinks at a pool when I discovered his very hairy back like hair up to the shoulders. I recognize that this comes with great features such as a fantastic head of hair, which is not necessarily easy to come by in men my age or older, but I've never been with a furry man like this before and I'm a bit thrown off and turned off. This didn't Prevent a second date, as I think the positive outweighs the hair. But I would appreciate your take on whether this is a superficial hanger up that I should get over or whether I should make a reasonable grooming request. Jared, should I send him a European wax center gift card or share one of your Insta stories about your journey there? Jordana, should I just get over it and focus on all the positives? Should I kindly say something and if so, how? Or am I just being too shallow? So icky or picky? His back hair is so wild. Appreciate all you do. Thank you very much. Sincerely shedding my doubts.

[A]

This is a fun one.

[B]

Yes. How do you.

[A]

I will say I am married to a man with a lot of body hair.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

He is a. He's a hairier guy.

[B]

And Harry and the Hendersons.

[A]

This is a. This is a. This is a fixable issue. Every time we go on vacation. The night before, I get his little. He's like a little tool. I don't know what you call it. And I get to scrape all of the hair off of his back.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And he pretends he doesn't like it and he's doing it for me, but I think he does because he's owned it before I met him. And you can't. I don't think you could say it right away. It's not something you could, like, immediately jump on. But hair is. Is a very easy problem to fix.

[B]

Right.

[A]

In my mind. If the man. If the person is willing, I could agree. An unkempt hair is like a. A little bit of a turn off, almost more. Because you're like, are you trying? And it's tougher. You know, it's tough for men. I will say I sympathize with men because it's like, you can't try too hard or you're like, trying too hard. Loser. But you can't not try at all because that's also like, do you care about being attractive?

[B]

Right.

[A]

So it is like a fine line.

[B]

Yes. I totally agree. I'm a back waxer. I get my back wax. And mine wasn't like I did at some points, I'd have like, the hair go from my shoulder up to my ear. Like, I could feel it, like, which is like, crazy to think about. Yeah, I. It's. I love the idea of, like, the early. Like, you can't be like a weekend with someone and be like. Because they went on a first date at a pool. So, like, she's like everything. Which is interesting and different, but, like, everything's perfect. And then like, like, like, you can't be too soon. It's too soon.

[A]

Not after a first date. Yeah.

[B]

But I will say men do, like, you know, all of men's looks are based off of. I do believe in the idea that men do things to get laid. Women dress for other women, and men dress for women. Like, so.

[A]

Right.

[B]

It is kind of funny to think that everything a man does, he thought was like, if you really want to, like, get into it.

[A]

You think he thinks this is, like, hot?

[B]

I don't think, no. Because this is like, it's like, you know, this is part of that difficulty of, like, this is just, Is like, I don't think this is like, there's no decision to make with back hair until you make the decision. Like, no decision is a decision. But, like, I think if you let someone get away from you, you don't really think of it as, like, a fashion decision. Do you know what I mean?

[A]

Right. He's not thinking about it at all.

[B]

I don't think this was a fat. I don't think he was like, yeah, I'm a hair. I'm a hairy back guy. Of course. That's what I do.

[A]

This is my thing.

[B]

This is my thing. This is. People love it for the women. Yeah. Like, I don't think that's his thought. I just think this is, like, it's just not something to be taken care of to him. But I, I, I don't know if you can say something until you're like, until he's yours. You know what I mean? Like, I agree. You know, when did you, like, like, I can't give suggestions to the house I might purchase. You know, like, you have to have made an investment in this person to be able to, like, bear the fruits of changing them. Right. Like, you know, like, you have to earn that.

[A]

Right?

[B]

Right. You gotta earn it. It. Yeah, but it's not in the same way.

[A]

If a guy told me he didn't like my, like, the dress I was wearing on a second date, I'd be like, off. That's a deal breaker. But if he, like, if my, you know, if Mike is like, interesting choice or something, like, or, like, said something like, that's a, like, like, it's a lot of. That's a, that's like a very loud whatever. Like. And now I don't, like, it's not as offensive.

[B]

It's kind of the beauty of being a man is like, like, you know, because we're like, looks first, and then we'll Discuss everything later. You rarely get into these things where you're like, hopefully we get in a relationship. But I can tell her, like, you gotta change this one thing about her. You know, Like, I. I can't even think of a scenario where I'd be like, dating someone. So far in. And I've had this where, like, I've been fixed up with people who are not my type, and I've given it a shot and I'm like. But they're just. I'm like, I'm just not there. It's not my type.

[A]

What if it's like a girl wears too much makeup? You think? I've heard this one before. Too much make or like, too much makeup. She wears a lot of makeup and you actually think she'd look better with very little or no makeup. Would you tell her that? Because that you can still be attracted to someone but think the makeup's a little heavy, Right?

[B]

Sure. But I don't even think. I don't. I don't think a man would go on a date with a woman who, like. I think, like, the too much makeup thing is said by. About women. They never date. Like, I. I don't think that's like.

[A]

Like you ever had a thought about a woman's appearance. That is like, I would, you know, I think.

[B]

But I would only straight.

[A]

But I would. If I were her, I would. I would wear something else.

[B]

But this goes back to earning that opinion. Like, I would only. That would be a serious relationship. Right? That would be in your head. In my head, yeah. But, like, you know, the too much makeup thing. No, it wouldn't. I don't. I don't think I would have a. There's no such thing as too much makeup for me to not want to fuck you. Do you know what I mean? Like.

[A]

Right. But would you prefer. Let's say. But I'm saying. Might you. Might you comment that you think she looks great with less makeup at some point in the relationship?

[B]

Yeah. Yes. They, like, if she was like, what do you think of my makeup? That. But that's. Again, that's earned. Like, you know, like, that would be. That would come, like, farther in, like, if, like, you know, like, it. It. Sometimes again, you see this on dating apps where it's like, all pictures from the wedding. That's, like, why, like, we would suggest, like, having four pictures from four weddings you went to is probably not a good move on a dating app, because there's a point where you go, well, what do they look like when we hang out you know, like day to day. Right. What's the data? Yeah. What's like the daytime version of this? Like, you know what I mean? Like, I. I don't know. I don't really. The too much makeup thing. Like, like, it would have to be so. For me not to approach someone because of their makeup. Like, it would have to be so much that I would think their personality is kind of like the makeup.

[A]

Right.

[B]

You know?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I don't see that the back hair is ever the personality of the man. Like, I don't think, like, I could listen if I'm dating someone and they're.

[A]

Like, I'm saying, I think this is picky.

[B]

No, this is totally picky. The. This is beyond. This is beyond picky to say we have 10 out of 10 banter and then, oh, my God, he has some back hair. Like, you guys, if, like the love of your life has back hair, you're going to be able to say to them, hey, we can. I. I think it's easier for a woman in this sense because you're gonna look at him and go, I am so attracted to you. You know what would also make me even more attracted? If you did a European wax center and got a back wax and then he would sprint there to do that for you. Because guys want to like, win. Want to like, get the girl. Want to turn on video games. We want to like, right. Beat the level. I don't know if it would be like, if I was dating someone and I was like, I want you to get a bob haircut. Like, I want you to get like a hot, like, you know, Pulp Fiction looking bob haircut. I don't think that would go as well.

[A]

Probably not. Unless you would have to do a lot more finessing.

[B]

But then, I mean, we did that email on this show and it was like, it was seen as like. So like, it did come off. And I will even say it from my angle, it came off, like, kind of gross and like, manipulative.

[A]

That's why it's an art. It's an art.

[B]

Right? But it's like, I don't know why it doesn't really, like, go the same way for men as it does for women. Like when a woman gives a guy a change, it's like, yes.

[A]

Well, it's like, I think it's what you're saying. It's like their guys are like, attracted or they're not.

[B]

Right?

[A]

They're attracted or they're not attracted. And it's like very incremental the amount that Your attractiveness increases by, like, little things like that. So, Jared, if a woman has a lot of back hair, Very, extremely hairy back. If you're biggie, I'll wax it for her.

[B]

We'll get rid of it. You know, if I. I don't know. Like, I'm trying to think of, like, the hair situation for a woman if she didn't shave her legs and everything else was, like, perfect.

[A]

Like, yeah, that's a good one.

[B]

Right? But I would be like, no armpits and legs. Armpits and legs, and everything else was perfect. It would be. It would actually. To me, like, that's like a. You know, it would be. It would be strange that we got along as well as we did. Like, I think, like, there's an element of, like, a woman's looks and how she's put together is so kind of attached to her personality. Whereas a man's looks and how he's put together, like, maybe not as much or maybe I'm misspeaking here.

[A]

Maybe I think they're just more malleable.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Stuff.

[B]

Right. All right, let's do another email.

[A]

Well, we agree it's picky. Let's do. Yeah, let's do another email.

[B]

Go for it, J and J. I.

[A]

Have a question about exchanging numbers. I've had a few guys now ask for my number after the first date, but still talk to me on the app and even scheduled the next date date. I have a personal rule that I don't give out my number until I've met someone in person. So I'm not bothered if a phone number exchange doesn't come up before date one. But it's strange. Guys don't ask for my number after the date if they want to go out again. I end up giving them my number if they express interest in another date. But is this weird? I know Jared has said that guys now do or don't do certain things because of how the dating landscape has changed. Is this one of them? If it matters, I'm in my mid-30s and dating guys who are mid-30s to mid-40s. Can't wait to hear what you think. Do you do this? Do you ask for. When do you get a number?

[B]

I would get a number from the app if they had a rule like this where we don't. They don't want to give numbers until they've met the person. I think that's a personal. I think that's a perfectly reasonable rule.

[A]

Okay with that?

[B]

Yeah, I think it's reasonable. I get it from a woman's perspective of, like, hey, I'm kind of just like, I get it from anyone's perspective, but it is, I think, what they've done. And I'm not looking to, like, I was trying to think of, like, reasons the guys aren't asking for their number after the first date. And there's a spectrum of if they.

[A]

Especially if they want to go on a second date, right?

[B]

And there's a spectrum of, like, so if they wanted to go on a second date but they don't get her number, there's a spectrum of, like, they forgot. Which, like, I actually think is like a reasonable, you know, like, you're messaging on the app, you have a great date, you go, hey, great to see you. And you go, and, like, it sounds like she's playing a little coy, to be honest. Like, based on how their email is written, like, why haven't they asked me? It's like, well, you have this rule that they've never thought of that, you know, like, this is obviously something you've thought of. So, like, he's put zero thought in it. Oh, you don't exchange numbers. Okay, cool, let's go out. And then you go out and have a great time, and then they want to go out again. They come back to you on the app, and it's like, there is a point where it's like, oh, you got to be a little less precious.

[A]

You tell me, you tell me when you want me to take your number, right?

[B]

You've made this a thing for you, which I'm respecting the thing. And I think you gotta, like, I would maybe forget. Like, I, I, I'll, I'll say that I would be maybe one of those people that would forget. And also, you've made it a rule. So, like, I want to make sure I kind of like, like, let your rule play out. Like, I, I, I don't know. These, these are options.

[A]

Is it another option that he wants to be able to get? Like, almost like, why you would only Snapchat instead of getting someone's number, wants to be able to get out quickly when he wants to get out.

[B]

No, that's, that's the other option. The other option is like, okay, I now let. This is like a version of gaslighting that is, like, more prevalent to me than actual, like, I think, like, this is a version of gaslighting that, like, this is what men kind of do. Like, oh, you've made this rule. I'll kind of let this rule kind of be the reason I can, like, act a certain way and kind of like, let myself off the hook for not having to get your number and keeping this a little more casual than maybe, like, you would want it to be.

[A]

Right?

[B]

You know, And I'm not trying to scare her out of her rule because I understand the safety concerns and, like, why she's doing it. But, like, I think there's a point where it's like, we can't read your mind and you gotta, like, say, like, hey, I've had a great time and you can make fun of it. I think it's time we do the numbers. Like, I think, like, here.

[A]

Or here's my number, right?

[B]

Here's my number. You passed the test. Like, that can be a fun thing to talk about on the date, because I think the way they're playing could be used against them. I'm not saying all the time, but it can be like, you know, okay, now I'm like, in the zone that we only message over the apps. And like, all right, now I kind of, like, have like, a free pass to kind of, like, not have to be in their phone and, like, kind of disappear and, you know, let's play it this way. And like, and I. And it's funny. Like, the one thing I would, like, like, make her cautious of is, like, sometimes. And this happens to a lot of women in dating, and I think it's not. I think they gotta, like, be easier on themselves based on this podcast is like, you make this rule, and then they think, well, now he gets to make any rules he wants to. And it's like, they're not the same. Like, the guy saying, I don't exchange numbers on the. On the app is weird.

[A]

Weirder for a man.

[B]

Weirder for a man. Like, and, And. But I think a lot of women out there will go, well, he's allowed to as well. You know what I mean? Like, and you go, sure. And. And. And like, I'm here eye rolling with you. You know, we saw this and I bring this up all the time. Like the, the when we were in San Francisco and everyone's talking about, like, all these guys were ethically non monogamous. And it's like you're on a dating app saying, I want to date multiple women at once under this, like, term that, like, lets you off the hook for being called a boy. And I think sometimes something like this gets used against her probably in the sense of like, well, I don't exchange numbers on the first date either. It's like, okay, dude, like, yes, you do. And it's not the same danger. You're not dealing with the same type of like, you know, the, the fear that maybe a woman would deal with.

[A]

You know, and, and yeah, it's not exactly the same.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So I think for her, she has to be okay with, like, this is her rule, but also like, you know, at a certain point, like, okay, rule, time's over for this. And letting a guy know, like, I'd like to, like, let's do numbers now. And also, like, understanding that if like a guy came back to you and was like, well, I have my rule too, like, he's being a little precious and he's like, like using this to play the victim to me, I, I agree.

[A]

You know, I think that answers the question for her.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

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[B]

Let's play some games. UUP betches.com you know the game Red flag or deal breaker. You have a a situation, you're on a day with someone, everything's going great and then one thing happens. Is it a red flag? Is it a deal breaker? We will answer that for you. J and J. I think the following could be a Nicky or picky or a red flag or deal breaker. Well, it's a deal breaker. Red flagger. Deal breaker. Okay. I, 32, female, have been dating a 35 year old guy for three months and after going to his friend's wedding together last weekend, I'm a little turned off. The wedding was for one of his friends and he seemingly knew the majority of the guests. He sort of spoke to people and refused to dance. I, on the other hand, love weddings. I was chatting with everyone at our table and would normally be on the dance floor all night. This was our first big group event together and I think I was thrown off by how not fun he was. So red flagger, deal breaker. He doesn't dance at weddings. And we bring different energies to weddings. Thanks. A dancing batch. What do you think, Jordana?

[A]

I think this could be a sign of an incompatibility for sure.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Especially because it's his friend's wedding. So if he's not like a fun guy at his friend's wedding, he's definitely not gonna be a fun guy at your friend's wedding.

[B]

Right. And that's not to say you can't be fun and him be at the table. But if like being on the dance floor with your partner is an important thing to you, you're not gonna get it here. This ain't the store where you're gonna find that on the shelves.

[A]

Different energies. Yeah. I don't know if I'd break up with someone because of that, but I think it would be a little bit of a red flag in terms of like, do we it have fun going out together?

[B]

Right. And they've only Been together three months and you've seen date him one on one him. This is larger universe him, you know, and you said something in the beginning of this episode that was like, important. Like, you were like, I, you. You kind of understood the assignment, you know, you were like, you were saying, like, it's his friend's wedding that he doesn't get to see a lot. So, like, I'm going to be chatty at the table. I'm going to let him go, go do his own thing. I don't need you kind of go spread yourself around. Like, you know, she's the guest at this wedding. You know, you can give a subtle push and a nudge, but, like, you kind of like, have to be his asset at his friend's wedding, right?

[A]

Yeah, But I also think, like, because they've only been together three months, he needs, like, I think he owes her more at this wedding where she doesn't know anyone and they've only been dating three months. Right then.

[B]

But does he owe her being a different person and dancing? Like he might at his friend's wedding, he might be like, they all know me. I'm they. If I'm out there dancing, I'm gonna be like, what's wrong with Rob? You know, like.

[A]

Right. I think it's more like, is he like, making sure you're having a good time would be like a positive thing at an event where you don't know anyone. And you were at three months, like, are you still trying to, like, again, are you. Are you trying to.

[B]

Right. And. But she doesn't really, you know, that's not really where her email lies. Like, he sort of spoke to people and refused to dance is not, Not. That's not right. Making her feel uncomfortable at a wedding and not tended to. Yeah, he's just not a dancer, you know, and she's like, that's who he is. That's who he is. Like, may.

[A]

But he's not the life of the party.

[B]

Right. And you know what the better test, but this is hard to do is like, like, how is he at a wedding with you and your friends? Like, if you and your friends are out there, is he the dud? Is he bringing down your good time? Like, I think you're. You could be closer to expecting that at the wedding with your friends because of what happened. But will he make a full 180 degree turn when he comes to your weddings with your friends? I don't think so.

[A]

Probably not. Yeah, but I would have him hang out with your friends.

[B]

Right?

[A]

A Little bit. And I. This would be like a red flag for me, but I would, I would give him a few more opportunities. You could also be having like an off night where you're just like, I'm not.

[B]

I would.

[A]

I think I'm not in the party mood.

[B]

It's definitely a red flag. It's definitely one of those things where you go, okay, I'm learning who this person is. Like, I wouldn't consider this like the extreme more than I would. You know what I mean? Like, maybe it's a bad night, but like, I don't think you go from refusing to dance to like, oh, come on, I'm in the middle of the circle, you know, like doing, you know, like, like, get out here, come on. You know, I don't think he's ever gonna be that guy.

[A]

Probably not. But I would give him one more. I would give him more than one opportunity, like social opportunity to see how he is socially, to see if you. Your vibes match.

[B]

I agree.

[A]

Because I don't think you can judge anyone based on one interaction.

[B]

Right. Let's do another.

[A]

All right. Hi. J and J. Love the pot. Enjoyed meeting Jared at a recent Providence show.

[B]

Hello.

[A]

I'll get right to it. I had a fun IRL mother. Meet cute. Recently, my married best friend, who was a notoriously bad wing woman for me, a single 33 year old female, was set on doing a better job winging. During a recent girls night out out at the bar, we struck up a conversation with a middle aged woman. Fun. And my friend uncovered that she has three single sons. During the discussion, she landed on which son would be the best match for me. I took a photo with the with the mom and she sent it to the son with my phone number. He texted me and we ended up going on a date a few days later. I enjoyed the date and felt pretty neutral overall about seeing him again. Which is a separate issue in terms of going on second dates after first dates that were good. Not great. Welcome. Any advice there? Okay. Meanwhile, the mom was texting my best friend and got a bit overbearing in my opinion, which made me less excited about the whole situation. See attached texts from the mom to my best friend. So unfair to judge a man based on his boomer mom's overzealous texts. Red flag or deal breaker? His mom aggressively texts your best friend at midnight and jokingly refers to herself as your potential mother in law when you go on one date with her son. Future daughter in nah batch.

[B]

Great sign off.

[A]

All right, so you. I'll be. Why don't you be the, the mom?

[B]

The mother in law mom. Okay.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Okay. I'll change the names to protect the innocent. Okay.

[A]

Yes. And I'm her friend.

[B]

You be her friend. Who? Wing woman for her. Okay. This is Estelle, your friend's potential mother in law.

[A]

Ah, I know. I still can't believe our plan worked and they met up.

[B]

So her turn. Is it a go?

[A]

All right, then.

[B]

She follows up response at midnight. Yes. Your silence makes me worried. Sad.

[A]

Hi, Estelle. Sorry, I'm out of town visiting some college friends. I've been busy and don't always have my phone on me. We'll see what happens. I've been here since Wednesday and haven't had a chance to talk to Lauren, but she texted me that she had a nice time with your son. So we shall see.

[B]

I'm sorry to be pushy. Have fun.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Okay. What do you think? I love this.

[A]

I think this is the kind of thing where, like, if you're into the guy, you're kind of excited about this text.

[B]

Right?

[A]

And if you're not into the guy, then you're like, like, you know, I mean, I think it could turn someone sort of in the middle one way or another.

[B]

Right? I, I, I, it's hard not to, like, kind of come back at the emailer a little bit. I, I'm happy they wrote in. I think they bring up a really good predicament as far as a red flag or deal breaker. But, like, the way she painted. I have a friend who's usually a bad wing woman. Like, you seem a little particular. Like, perhaps. Right. Like you, you forced your friend into being better at something that. Who is good at that? Like, I don't know. Then she talks to this woman who finds. Finds she finds three single men for you. And then the woman who you get jazzed up at the bar after a few drinks about dating their son is, like, really excited and, like, wants to know the deal and, like, is being the person that they probably were. Because at the bar. Because that's how you have to be to be able to, like, get into conversation with people you don't know to fix up your son. Like, and then she wants to know, like, like, what's the deal? Like, and then apologizes for being pushy when your friend comes back with, like, an automated response. Like, I think this woman is, like, within her rights to be asking these questions. I don't know. Don't you?

[A]

Does it sound a little despy? Sure do. I think it's Any has any indication of a reflection on the son's feelings? No. I think the mom is like a little bored.

[B]

Right. And excited. Like a little.

[A]

Right?

[B]

She got some action. Yeah.

[A]

And excited. Is it a little weird to text anyone that's not like your spouse at 12:15am?

[B]

Sure.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Right? I guess. Yeah.

[A]

It's a little weird, right? With a non urgent question. Yeah, I don't, I think her son could hate you and she would still be texting this.

[B]

Yeah, I think so too. And I like, I don't think it's.

[A]

A reflection on him.

[B]

No, I don't think so at all. And, and I think it's like a reflection on like, I mean it is a pretty wild night to go out with girlfriends and then strike up a conversation with a random woman, then go out with their son. Like this is pretty like crazy, you know, like.

[A]

Yeah, it's fun story.

[B]

It's a fun story. So like I, it is funny that like the mom's still being fun about it and then they're like, okay, relax Gladys. Okay? You know.

[A]

She'S joking. Future mother in law.

[B]

Yeah, the future mother in law. I don't know. That's why I'm like kind of like the emailer. I think she needs to like, you know, like get a little, you know, have fun with this a little more. Like, I don't know, like, I don't know. I'm with you, Jordana. I think she didn't like the guy on the date and this is why. This is like one of those things that like had they had had the magical date then she would have been like excited about.

[A]

Yeah, I think if she liked him a lot, she'd be like, oh my God, his mom is already calling me her daughter in law. Like we're getting married.

[B]

Right. So I don't know. This isn't a deal breaker for me.

[A]

It's fine for me. I think it's kind of fun.

[B]

I think it's fun. I think it's in. It also matches the fun of like how this like came to be. Like she's being fun still. And you guys, you know, the white wine wore off and you guys are like business as usual is like kind of weird to me.

[A]

Right. I agree. With the exception again of the midnight text.

[B]

I think it's all normal. It's 2am it's all I could think about. Like, it's like right, like is she.

[A]

Call, is she doing a follow up telephone call after that? I'd be, then I'd be like, all.

[B]

Right, here's the thing about the mother in law is she kind of like has a good gauge of the temperature in the room. She says sorry to be pushy. Like even after her friend got back to her with like you know, the automated text from the kidnapping line like so yes.

[A]

Crazy.

[B]

All right, let's do one more J and J subscriber here. I love listening to you guys attach our screenshots with a guy I matched with on Hinge. I was supposed to go to a concert and ended up with me being the ninth wheel. He ended up saying he doesn't believe in giving gifts to couples no matter what. Is this a red flag or deal breaker? This was a deal breaker for me, but my friend thought it was a green flag and he had good financial boundaries. Would love your thoughts on it. So red flagger deal breaker. He doesn't give gifts. Screenshots below. All right, you be her, I'll be him.

[A]

All right. But somehow now it's me and nine couples.

[B]

Hahaha. That's the era we live in these days as old single folks.

[A]

For real. I had 5 pregnancy announcements this week alone. LOL.

[B]

I was just 17th wheeling a few weekends ago with all my married friends at Putt Shack.

[A]

Damn.

[B]

Then he responds to her five pregnancy announcements thing. That's impressive. And also why I have have adopted a strict no gift giving policy.

[A]

Do you just not go to the events?

[B]

Oh no, I go if I'm invited. Laughing face emoji. But the policy still stands and don't.

[A]

Give presents for weddings and birthdays.

[B]

That's correct. I also don't take at my events. I don't take gifts at my events.

[A]

Right? He should have said take gifts.

[B]

What events is he having?

[A]

Well that's what? What events would you be throwing that you and her are on the same. You and her on the same page.

[B]

I read this before too. I don't know why that didn't okay.

[A]

What events would you be throwing that a gift is expected? Lol.

[B]

Ha. I forgot I'm talking to attorney over here. In my defense, I also haven't given my sister a wedding gift cuz it cost me a few grand just to attend.

[A]

Your sister is the one person where it wouldn't matter. Lol.

[B]

Interestingly, she's the only one that got pissed.

[A]

Others probably are too and just won't say anything. I love the honesty.

[B]

She's right.

[A]

She's going for it. Yeah.

[B]

Yet they keep inviting me back. I guess they truly just enjoy having my cheap ass around. Another new policy for me. If I stay in Airbnb with all couples. I only split the bill by the number of people. How do you feel about that? I used to. I used to get talked into splitting in other ways, but I felt I always got screwed over.

[A]

Yeah. My friends always do it that way. Yikes. This guy is, like, going out of his way to turn her off.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

He keeps doubling down.

[B]

He. Off. Yeah. He's brutal. I. He stinks. I. This is one of those that's like, he. Like, he's on the edge of being an. But, like, he's not all the way there. Like, like, to me, like, this is like, how kind of men get. And I'll be. I'll include myself as, like, you have. So when you're single, as you get older, you have so few people. You have no one at home being like, shut the fuck up. And so you get a little entrenched in your opinions. And he sounds like he's like, there. Like, no one has been like. Like, not laughing at his jokes. No one has been, like, questioning him. And like, he even gets called out, like, what events are you throwing? And he's like, ah, real attorney here. And then he changes the subject. He's like, ah. I also, you know.

[A]

Right.

[B]

I got an Airbnb thing, too. Let me. Let me bring that up.

[A]

No, I agree. I agree. This is a deal breaker. This guy's like. It's just so funny where he's like. Because I'm thinking about this, I'm thinking, like, if I ever married this guy, we would get no gifts.

[B]

I guess we're out. Yeah. I mean.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Like, he also, like, has policies for things that aren't really. But, like, she even says, like, like, who's getting an Airbnb with 17 people? And then being like, okay, he has to pay for, like, as a couple, like, that would never be how it would go.

[A]

Right. I think he's like. It seems like he's. He would be a. The. The red. The deal breaker. And the red flags this is sending out to me is that this would be, like, a really annoying guy to fight with because he's very. He's very sure of himself.

[B]

Right.

[A]

It's not like he's saying these things as, like, what do you think of this? Like. Like, do you think that someone should have to do this? I'm not sure. It's like, this is my policy, and I'm right about this thing. He seems like it's a douchey way to, like, state an opinion.

[B]

Listen, I'm with you. This Guy's a deal breaker. I do think having a policy in dating when you're single is a bad look. Like, even the woman who's like, I don't give out. Like, and again, you're gonna lose people and you might be okay with that. I don't give out numbers to anyone before a first date. Like, I, I get why you do that. But like, sometimes policies are just meant to keep to yourself. Like, you know, like, right. And, and are like, someone asks you.

[A]

Why you didn't do something, then you can explain.

[B]

Right? Right. I don't, I don't need to be like, you know, you're not a pool that I'm like trying to go swimming. Like, here are the rules before you enter. Like, you gotta make sure you wear your sandals. And I don't go to get, I don't give a gift. Like, you know, if they went to a wedding together and it's like, hey, you didn't bring them a gift. It's like, I just, you know, we paid a lot of money to go here. I, I think it's crazy that we give each other gifts. Like, I guess that could be, but I, I think that's also like, still.

[A]

Reads pretty cheap, right?

[B]

It's cheap. And it also reads very like, single guy who's set in his ways that hasn't had to answer to anyone. And I think this happens to men a lot. I, I, like, I'll say this for myself. Like, like, like I think he got like, he gets a little bit of an ego puncture when he's like, when someone's like, well, that doesn't sound right at all. You know, like, right.

[A]

Which feels douchy to me.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Do you know what I mean?

[B]

Yeah. I know this guy and even the.

[A]

Way he's responded with like speaking to a lawyer over here, it's like, this is how you would fight with everything. Like if you asked one clarifying, if you asked one clarifying question about something absurd that he said he would respond.

[B]

With, whoa, I forgot I'm speaking to.

[A]

Oh, big, big, big lawyer woman here. Like, ooh, big. Like, you know what I mean? It's almost like a gaslighting thing. Like she's asking, she's asking the question that you and I both immediately thought of.

[B]

Right?

[A]

Which is like, what the kind of events are you like 35 year old single man throwing where anyone would ever get you a gift.

[B]

Right? No one's gonna get you a gift. Yeah, I, I mean it's a deal breaker. I, I, I like that the friends like, oh, he has good financial boundaries. Like, anyone could paint anyone into a positive with that.

[A]

Like, look at this saying. Like, oh, he never texts me. It's like, good. He has good personal space. Boundaries, right? No, these are called social norms.

[B]

Right?

[A]

Social norms.

[B]

Yeah. I, I just reading his text, it like scared me, you know, I, I'll say as like a single man, I was like, this happens.

[A]

The ghost of Christmas future.

[B]

Yeah, a little bit like, I, I have this a little bit in me where I was like, I'm like, oh.

[A]

You'Re a comedian too, so I hope.

[B]

I don't sound like this.

[A]

It's kind of your. Well, it's kind of your job to have like strong opinions that you like, qualify in this way. But do you know what I mean?

[B]

But my job isn't to like do that while I'm trying to like entertain someone. As far as a date is concerned, you know, like, like we have a day coming up. If they said, like, I mean, I've done this with like, I've had this happen where someone's like, well, you know, like, I fly United and I'm like, I gotta go with Delta. I had this happen where I was like, I gotta go with Delta. They're like, delta, how could you. And I'm like, well, there's three airports in New York that do Delta. Like, what do you mean? How could I, you know, like, I like, right? You know, like, I, I don't understand.

[A]

Like, are they joking though?

[B]

And they're like, keep on the joke that. I'm like, it's no, I'm just like, he was like doubling down, right? He's doubling down and making it. He's not even going. Well. Yeah. You know, I'm an. You know, like, it's, it's like, this is what I do.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, so deal breaker.

[A]

I don't believe in it. Right.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

This is the guy who's like, I don't believe in anniversaries.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Of course I didn't get you a card.

[B]

Right. It's like anything that becomes religious policy is no cards. No cards. I don't do it. Not for anyone. Also in dating, when you have a dating policy, it's like, that's you being like, everyone's the same.

[A]

Right.

[B]

You know, you would treat everyone the same. I'm not treating everyone the same.

[A]

And the policy thing is like, it ignores the fact that like the main important thing in a relationship is like the ability to compromise.

[B]

Right.

[A]

In like a real long term relationship is like the idea that you and I have different views on this one thing and we're able to come together. Like, he's not showing me any of that open mindedness.

[B]

Right. And that's very much a product of, like, the dating apps, where it's like, well, I'll just go back to the bin and see who can deal with these policies. So, yeah, dump this dude.

[A]

I agree.

[B]

We solve dating again. Jordana, we did it.

[A]

We'll be back on Friday with you've Got Mail, so watch it. Want to hear our review?

[B]

Boom.

[A]

Bye.