Why Hot Takes Are Ruining Dating Advice ft. Dear Shandy

Summary

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Podcast Summary: U Up? – “Why Hot Takes Are Ruining Dating Advice ft. Dear Shandy”

Host: Jordana Abraham & Jared Freid
Guests: Charlene Joint & Andy Levine (Dear Shandy)
Date: May 1, 2026

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Episode Overview

This lively episode of U Up? welcomes Charlene Joint and Andy Levine from the Dear Shandy podcast to explore the impact of “hot takes” on dating advice, the authenticity of modern dating and reality TV relationships, and the real consequences of dating app culture. The discussion is both playful and insightful, blending behind-the-scenes reality TV, relationship psychology, and dating trends through both hosts’ and guests’ unique perspectives.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Dear Shandy Origins and Relationship Backstory

• How They Met & Their Dynamic:
  • Charlene and Andy share their meeting story in classic “meet-cute” style at a charity event in NYC. Their interaction pokes fun at Andy’s secretive work life—an ongoing inside joke with their audience ([02:00]-[05:04]).
  • Quote:
    • Andy: “I do not believe that work should be discussed in the first couple of dates.” ([03:11])
  • They reveal a whirlwind romance: Andy proposed within five months, noting the comical attempt to propose in Italy, and Charlene moving in almost immediately ([10:00]-[13:12]).

2. The Transition from Private Life to Podcasting

• Charlene discusses her Bachelor experience and how that informed Dear Shandy’s mix of relationship advice and reality TV analysis ([05:18]-[23:20]).
  • Quote:
    • Charlene: “I took the whole thing maybe, too, like, sincerely... There came a point where it was like, well, then what are you doing?” ([05:48])
• Andy explains his accidental slide into public life through pandemic podcasting and becoming the unofficial relationship advisor for Charlene’s friends ([23:17]-[23:34]).

3. Dating App Culture and "Hot Takes" vs. Real Advice

• The group dives into how dating apps have transformed the dating landscape, reducing the need for risk-taking and “in-person” social skills, especially among men.
  • Quote:
    • Andy: “You get skills in anything from failing… so you never fail, really, on the dating apps, do you?” ([15:51]-[16:05])
• They critique the prevalence of oversimplified dating hot takes on social media and platforms, noting how nuance is often lost.

4. Reality TV: Clout vs. Connection and Generational Shifts

• The hosts and guests compare authenticity and motivation in reality TV dating shows, arguing earlier contestants were less clout-driven due to the lack of social media’s influence ([23:52]-[29:08]).
  • Quote:
    • Jared: “Anyone who’s there season one is more likely to be there for actual love… could not agree more…” ([28:31])
• They play a rapid-fire game parsing famous couples as “in it for true love or in it for the likes?”, highlighting how hard it is now to untangle love and fame.
• Andy observes a decline in interpersonal skills and eloquence on contemporary shows:
  • Quote:
    • Andy: “You will be shocked… at the level of articulation you will see the difference… Men have gone from well-spoken people… to people who stare into space, talk about themselves, cannot get through a sentence without a million ums or likes.” ([36:10]-[37:24])

5. Fame, Authenticity, and the Impact of Instagram

• Charlene reflects on how “going on the Bachelor” pre-Instagram was a different experience, implying that today’s contestants are more motivated by influencer careers ([43:10]-[43:53]).
• She expresses empathy for reality TV contestants, appreciating how hard it is to be watched and judged by the world ([43:54]-[44:28]).

6. Lighthearted Critiques & Pop Culture Moments

• The group swaps memorable stories, including Andy dodging questions about his career, joking about “business,” and the joys and absurdities of straight-up, old-school romantic gestures ([03:19]-[04:17], [11:01]-[13:58]).
• The guests admit they don’t follow every reality show, surprising the hosts and prompting a meta-discussion about the insular worlds of various fandoms ([34:03]-[35:04]).

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Notable Quotes & Moments (w/ Timestamps)

• On Reality TV Authenticity:
  • Jared: “The Bachelor is sort of predicated on this idea that everyone would be attracted and want to marry this person.” ([06:40])
• On Fame and Relationships:
  • Andy: “Now a lot of the couples—it’s part and parcel. I don’t think they can parse out what’s love and what’s clout. I think it becomes one monster.” ([29:29])
• On Dating App Skills:
  • Andy: “You can go up and talk to someone… and now, it just takes away the risk, which is like 95% of what you had to do before.” ([14:52])
• On Social Media’s Influence:
  • Charlene: “When I went on the show… Instagram wasn’t even a thing yet… I would never go on any of these shows today.” ([43:10]-[43:43])
• On Generational Differences:
  • Andy: “Watch an old episode… and now watch a new one. The level of eloquence is shocking.” ([36:10]-[37:24])

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Timestamps of Important Segments

• [02:00] – Charlene & Andy’s relationship origin story
• [05:18] – Bachelor experience and pandemic podcasting origins
• [10:00] – NYC charity event, ziti, and dating fate
• [13:16] – Digital dating, dating apps, and the loss of in-person skills
• [23:17] – Transition from private advice to public podcast
• [25:01] – Debate on authenticity motives in reality TV and show ranking
• [27:29] – Game: “True Love or True Likes” parsing reality TV couples
• [36:10] – Andy’s commentary on generational changes in conversation skills
• [42:50] – Reflection on show contestants, social media, and empathy for participants
• [43:10] – Impact of Instagram on motivations for reality TV appearances

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Final Thoughts and Takeaways

This episode deftly unpacks how “hot takes” and clout-chasing are diluting nuanced dating advice and genuine connections both on reality TV and in real life. The conversation balances critical commentary with playful banter, ultimately urging listeners to look beyond viral advice and reflect on what authentic connection—and self-awareness—really means today.

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Transcript

[A]

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[B]

Hello, and welcome back to the Friday Feels episode of the U UP podcast. I'm Jordana Abraham.

[C]

And I am Jared Freed. It is so good to be back here with you, Jordana. But it is especially good because we have two very special guests from the Dear Shandy podcast, Charlene Joint and Andy Levine. Thank you guys for coming on.

[D]

Thank you.

[E]

Thanks for having us. Guys.

[C]

What's going on? How are you guys today?

[D]

It's good. It's good to be here. I know we. We didn't cross paths. You asked if we were up and we said we were up. And then we never consummated the thing.

[C]

So now we all have to fuck.

[B]

Oh, they didn't tell you? That's how we do all the episodes.

[C]

They lock the doors. Now we go. So you guys have a podcast. Dear Shandy, you talk about dating, relationships. I mean, what do we. Why do we have to do this? If you do what we do, what do we need to do this for? What is the meaning of the mind? What's the meaning. What are we going to talk about?

[E]

I guess it comes down to who was doing it first. What year did you guys start before you.

[C]

So. So we went there. What's the nature of the podcast? How did it start? You're, you know. I know you were on the Bachelor and. Andy, what do you do? What did you do before?

[D]

I was just doing my business. I was just a businessman.

[C]

Okay, that's.

[D]

It's a secret.

[C]

That sounds like a grift.

[D]

It was business, you know, business.

[C]

Here. What pyramid scheme did you have?

[D]

Yeah, it was a couple of things. Mlms. But no, I met this. This beautiful woman and we dated for a few years.

[E]

Yes.

[D]

Actually, we got married.

[E]

Like, we got married really fast.

[D]

Actually, I proposed to her five months after I met her.

[C]

Five months.

[D]

Interesting story. I meant to propose three months after I met her. We were in Italy and I had a ring in my pocket that I brought from New York and I was in bed with her. I was like, I'm going to do it now. I don't care. You know, all the times I tried to get it romantic, like at the top of a castle outside. It was like raining and there was too many tourists. I was like, I'm doing it right here in bed.

[E]

And.

[D]

And I went into my pocket and I was, I was like, I can't get the thing out. Like it was stuck in the bottom of my jean pocket. And I was, I just. So I was like, I'm not going to do it. It was taking too long. So I proposed.

[B]

Had you discussed engagement?

[E]

No.

[B]

No.

[E]

You wanted to surprise me.

[C]

Wow. What are you doing in Italy? Three months in, she was singing.

[D]

She's opera singer.

[C]

And you were just like, I'm coming, I'm going to. What's this business that you do that affords you to go to Italy three months with some random opera singer?

[E]

Fun fact. His business or what he does outside of the podcast is top secret information. Never divulge.

[C]

On our podcast, you never divulge.

[E]

So our shandies of nearly six years still don't know what Andy does.

[C]

Don't you think that's an issue for a dating podcast? You're supposedly the honest one who gives it to people straight. And you're not talking about money at all.

[D]

That's right. Well, well, the reason I set that, that precedent is because I do not believe that work should be discussed in the first couple of days.

[C]

Yeah, I mean, you're here on a Wednesday at 11:51, so you must be doing well.

[D]

I've done well.

[C]

He's okay. Delegated, you think in the first few dates that is not worth bringing up at all?

[D]

Well, first few dates for sure. But I've always been on a first date with, with our fans.

[E]

Andy has always hated the question. So what do you do?

[C]

Yeah, I'm asking it right now. I think it's very important to the conversation because money revolves around all of this.

[D]

Off. Let's see if it's worth it.

[C]

I absolutely will. I don't care. I have no issue.

[D]

No, I, I don't. It's just. It's just a thing.

[C]

So the listeners have no idea what you do for a living?

[D]

I think they have some idea. They've pieced it together.

[B]

Right. I'm sure if you do your own research.

[D]

Well, now you've made such a big deal about it.

[C]

No, I would. I, I would be. I would not trust someone I. Who won't reveal what they do for a living.

[D]

I wouldn't trust me. Regardless of me revealing what I do

[C]

for a living, even that answer is not trustworthy. That is a not trustworthy answer because three months in. Here's, here's my point. How did you guys meet before? Three months.

[E]

I happened to sit next to him at the Woolly, and he picked me up.

[C]

The Woolly?

[E]

What's the Woolly? It's an event space that now doesn't exist. It was at the Woolworth Building, but now it's like. It was, like, a nice bar, though. That's. The setting's, like, nice bar.

[C]

So New York City.

[D]

New York City, meet cute.

[C]

And you, who spoke to who first?

[D]

I asked her.

[E]

Look at him. You think that he doesn't have the moves?

[D]

Well, I used to.

[C]

Yeah. He's a. He's a professional con man, of course. Doesn't tell people what he does. You know, that's. Of course he has the moves.

[D]

Thank you for the professional.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

I thought I was just here not

[C]

telling a listenership what you do.

[E]

I will.

[C]

And they trust you.

[E]

I will add to this that when we started the podcast, it was sort of like, in the pandemic. It wasn't sort of. It was in the heart of the pandemic, out of our living room, and we're like, we don't know if this is going to be a thing. And in general, like, I was the more public figure out of the two of us, and we didn't want to, like, force him to be more public than he felt comfortable. And now it has just become a thing.

[D]

It's become a thing.

[C]

Well, you were famous for turning down the Bachelor, leaving the show.

[B]

I watched that season. We used to recap it. I used to do the recaps. Unless I said something negative about you, in which case it was some. Someone else probably said I had a

[E]

stick up my ass.

[B]

No, I think we really liked you. You, like, here's the thing. It was, like, a very big power move to leave the Bachelor when he was, like, really into you.

[E]

Yeah.

[B]

You, like, weren't into him. That was like. It was like, the one honest thing about the thing is that you were like, you're all dating this man, and you, like, I getting. I'm getting to know this man. And, like, not really that into.

[E]

I think I took the whole thing maybe, too, like, sincerely, because, like, the way I saw it was like, this is a guy I would totally hook up with. Like, you know, he was fun, he was hot, and it was. There was really good chemistry. But then you go in the ITM room, and they're like, so, like, are you excited to introduce Juan Pablo to your parents as, like, a potential future husband? And I was like. Like, I wasn't able to keep a straight face. Through those conversations, and that didn't really translate. There came a point where it was like, well, then what are you doing?

[C]

Right.

[E]

Why are you here?

[C]

Which is fair. That's the show.

[B]

I mean, that's why. That's why all the men are on it on the Bachelorette.

[C]

What, to go and hook up kind of. Well, I mean, but then the show. The whole premise is at some point, episode seven.

[E]

Yeah.

[C]

You have to meet parents, and if you're not into it, that's okay. I mean, both sides, I think, have a point in that.

[E]

No, but 100%.

[B]

But I think the. The. The thing that was cool about that is, like, the Bachelor sort of predicated on this idea that, like, everyone would be attracted and want to marry this person. Right. When, like, the idea is if you go on 20 dates, all 20 people are not necessarily going to actually want to marry you. But because of the show stakes, there's a feeling of like. Like, most people don't leave. So most people get all the way to the end and they just kind of want to win. And her leaving, I think, was kind of like, almost like this is actually more feel. Feels more real. Because in a real world scenario, not everyone that you're dating wants to date you back.

[D]

Exactly.

[E]

I appreciate you saying that. I do think that the culture around even that show has shifted so much because now that's seen as a power move. But at the time, a lot of people were like, get TV then. Like, if you don't love that he has a daughter, like, which I was. I kind of, like, I wasn't 100%, like, all in on that. And people were like, then why did you sign up for this season? That sort of thing.

[C]

Yeah, that was a early for you to do that. Then totally different than now.

[E]

It was very mixed response. Like, there was a lot of, like, yeah, feminism. And then there was like, get off the screen.

[B]

And then when you had. When you saw her at the bar, is the bar. It was a bar.

[E]

Yeah. Nice.

[D]

It was actually a benefit for ocean animals.

[B]

I mean, going to charity events as a single person is actually, I feel like a pretty good idea.

[E]

Awesome idea. I completely agree. Also, the barrier to entry being like, you need to know. Usually, like, that's something you're, like, researching, you know, about. And also the COVID like, in our case, there was a cover. And.

[C]

But don't ask about his business.

[D]

No.

[C]

Just has to be able to afford it with no source of income.

[D]

Well, it was $50.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

Okay.

[D]

Wow. Yeah.

[C]

It wasn't $50.

[D]

Yeah.

[E]

Yeah.

[C]

You don't know the cost of living in Manhattan.

[B]

Did it include a drink ticket?

[E]

No.

[B]

No. Okay.

[D]

No, no. All going to those animals out the window.

[B]

Oh, wow.

[C]

Okay.

[D]

So.

[B]

So when you saw her, had you. Did you recognize her from the Bachelor? Did you know who she was?

[D]

No, I had never seen. Well, that's. That's not true. I watched the first. First episode of the first season. I don't remember the guy's name.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

Andrew.

[D]

Was it Firestone?

[B]

I thought it was like, he was later.

[E]

But the original Bachelor, I think, like, vanished. She became like. Like a civilian.

[B]

Well, you could. That was like early. Early reality dating. You could go back to being a civilian. So you hadn't seen. You didn't know she was.

[D]

No, I did not. But she did tell me during our time together not to Google her.

[E]

I was.

[B]

Whatever you do, that would be the first thing I would do if someone said that to me.

[D]

So I was like, oh, okay. So obviously on the way home, I did. And I was like, oh, that's interesting.

[C]

What did you say to her?

[D]

I don't remember.

[E]

What did I say to you?

[D]

Oh, to pick her up. Oh, yeah.

[E]

Oh, the line. What was the line?

[C]

Yeah.

[E]

So what are you doing here?

[C]

Okay.

[E]

Are you impressed?

[B]

Tone is very important on that one, right?

[D]

Yes.

[B]

What are you doing?

[D]

The you has to be the emphasis for you.

[B]

Yeah.

[E]

The way he said it was like, you don't belong here.

[D]

Right. She seemed out of place. She seems out of place everywhere, to be honest. In the best way I've.

[E]

I've come to embrace the fact that I'm always out of place. But I felt that way on the

[C]

back, usually at the marine biology events. There's not a lot of, like, women there, so.

[D]

Okay, just to be clear, I have not gone to any prior to this.

[C]

Okay.

[D]

This was my own one and only ocean animals benefit.

[B]

Are you there alone?

[C]

Why are you there?

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

Okay. That's an interesting question.

[B]

Fate, Jared.

[C]

Fate. I'm sorry, I don't want to ruin the romance of this movie.

[D]

It was 100% fate. But I was actually just out of a relationship, taking a break, so to speak, and I discovered Tinder. So I was just swiping on Tinder and I just started talking to some girl and I was like, what are you doing tonight? And she says, I'm going to this thing at the Woolly. You should come. She was going to be with a friend, so it wasn't going to be like a one on one date. So I was like, oh, okay. So I just. I Had like, a huge dinner. I used to get, like, these corporate trays of, like, baked ziti. Just eat the whole thing.

[C]

You would just go and get a large.

[D]

I would get the biggest tray of ziti you can have and just eat most of it and save the rest for lunch the next day. There's bachelor stuff, right? Like, you know.

[B]

Oh, like, you're. Oh, I thought you were saying this was your court, like a. Like, at your business.

[D]

No, I'm at home getting a corporate tray of zita. Yeah. So I was really.

[C]

You weren't, like, in HR and sending all.

[E]

I think they're trying to piece together the business.

[D]

Yeah. No.

[B]

So you just bought it yourself a large.

[D]

So I ate it, and I was in a food coma. And I'm telling you, like, something just told me to go to this place. I had no interest. I was Upper west side. This was Tribeca. It was a long ride. It was raining like crazy. And I had guaranteed hookup that night from a girl I had just met the day before.

[C]

Guaranteed.

[D]

She was texting me.

[B]

Sure thing.

[D]

Sure thing. She was texting me like, I'm in the neighborhood. Can I come over? That kind of thing. I was like, something drove me into the subway downtown to meet this woman.

[E]

Fate. And on my end, I had two girlfriends who were planning on coming with me, and they both canceled on me because of the rain. And I still went by myself. And my umbrella broke on the way. It was that torrential outside.

[B]

It does sound like Rom com. Yeah.

[E]

I felt very called to go that night. Yes.

[C]

And the rest is history. So then it moves pretty quickly to the point where I'm going to Italy in three months.

[D]

She moved in 10 days.

[E]

Okay. No, no, no, no, no. I was in. It always sounds. No, I was.

[D]

I forced her to move in.

[B]

What happened with the woman who thought she was going to hook up with you?

[E]

Oh.

[B]

Oh.

[E]

Everyone always focuses on that part.

[B]

She sounds like a real asshole.

[D]

Okay, so first of all, she was with someone else. It wasn't a date. I saw her, and I just was like, I'm not. That's not the vibe I want tonight. And I just snuck around a corner to sit on a couch, and that's when Charlene sat next to me.

[E]

He gets flacked for that part of the story.

[D]

And it wasn't about the way she looked. It was about her vibe. It was like a very clubby, like, that kind of thing. And it's just not. That wasn't my thing that night, was it?

[C]

Maybe that. I mean, there's a way to look at that. I've seen people where you go, it's gonna be a lot of energy.

[D]

Yes.

[C]

I just don't want to do the. I. I don't have the energy.

[D]

Yes.

[E]

That's a good way of putting it, actually.

[C]

I think it goes both ways. Hello, and nice to meet you. And who's the friend? She's there with friends. And. Yeah, you know, it's like, you know, I, I. A lot of, you know, it's just like, I gotta. I gotta really rally.

[B]

Right?

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

I mean, that woman must have.

[C]

Tray of ziti.

[B]

That woman must have seen you engaged three months later and been like, what?

[D]

Gave me a lot of credit, but, yeah, if she did check me out, it happened very fast, and she did move in 10 days.

[C]

So you had been on Tinder and for how long?

[D]

Like a minute? Hardly. Yeah, for a second. She stole my entire Tinder career from me.

[C]

And you never been on a dating app?

[E]

Well, actually, I was invited to this event by a guy I had met on Match years prior, like, three years prior. And we had stayed friends because he always knew, like, the good parties and stuff. So we'd sort of stayed like, peripheral friends. And he invited me to this, and he had not yet arrived when I was there. So I was there alone. My girlfriends had canceled, and I was sort of, like, didn't know where. What I was doing. So I sat on the sofa next

[D]

to Andy and his. I'm almost sure that this guy was doing coke across the street at someone's

[B]

apartment, and that's why he was late

[D]

and that's why he wasn't there. We both agree that that was the case, and I got there because of Tinder. So coke and Tinder is the reason we're together.

[C]

This is like a. This love story is quite a time capsule. The.

[B]

I like the honesty in it, though.

[C]

Right.

[B]

He's gonna hook up with someone.

[C]

Gonna hook up. Right. The. The fact that Tinder's just starting this feels like a flashback episode of also talking to strangers.

[D]

Yeah.

[E]

Like, he picked me up. Like, I feel like that feels quaint now.

[B]

Is it easier, do you think? You think it's easier to have picked her up because she wasn't with friends? Like, if she was with a couple of girlfriends, I think that I was

[D]

never good at that.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

Like, I, I like.

[B]

It's tougher to do that.

[E]

That's advanced level.

[B]

Yes.

[E]

Especially when you're targeting one of the maybe three girls, and you're like, who do I talk to?

[B]

We have to Pretend you're just being friendly and then kind of figure out a way to narrow it in. I think.

[D]

Yeah. I've live in an energy, and I've always found that that takes a lot of energy to sort of please. I'm a people pleaser too, so I want to make everyone happy. And then, you know.

[E]

So what we're learning about men, though, is that when they go out, they're assessing how much energy is this going to take.

[C]

Okay, well, yeah, that's why the dating apps are such a, like, exactly. Kind of like a crutch for a lot of men.

[E]

Yeah.

[C]

It takes away the risk. Yeah. Which is like a, you know, 95 of what you had to do before you got to go up and talk to someone.

[D]

And it's so not scary. The apps, I mean, I was on the apps for just a second and I was like, this is the easiest thing in the world. It's a joke.

[B]

Right. Well, the pretense of, like, we're both looking single and looking to date is already out there. So I think that also.

[D]

And it's also like, now there's. I mean, what is it? Bumble. And I think there's a couple of them where they pre select you or they're like, the women have to choose, right?

[E]

Yeah. And then hinge. You have to know someone.

[D]

Yeah, Right. Okay. It's just. It's so easy and it trains men to not have the skills to actually chemically connect with women. That's what I think.

[E]

I think. Yeah. Also. And you also don't build the character that you would build from rejection and taking those risks and maybe expending energy in the wrong places.

[D]

And that's the thing is, like, you. You get skills in anything from failing.

[C]

Right.

[D]

I mean, you can learn academically at do something, but without failing, you're not going to really become an expert at it. And the more you fail, the better you are. Right. So you never fail, really, on the dating apps, do you?

[C]

Did you learn that in your business? Did you learn that?

[D]

My business never fails. Never learned anything from that. Still hasn't failed.

[C]

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[C]

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[E]

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[B]

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It's blood soaked nightmare fuel, bro. You put on her. You have been warned. Obsession. Rated R under 17, animated without parent only.

[D]

Theaters May 15 with special engagements in Dolby.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

So you meet her, she says, don't Google me. You google her anyway. You see she was on the. The Bachelor. Do you like. Did you watch the season? Did you think. Not watch it? Did you. When? When did you watch it?

[E]

Oh, after we met, you mean?

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[B]

Did you watch it like before you decided if you. How far you wanted to go?

[D]

No, I saw the clip of her. The only thing I saw when I googled her was a clip of her rejecting or. No, sorry. I saw the clip of her accepting the first impression Rose grudgingly. Yeah.

[B]

Okay.

[D]

Where she's like, that's a power move. Sure. And I was like, ah, she's faking it. It like she really wanted it. That's what I mean.

[E]

It was like on E. News or something.

[D]

Like before the news did that. So anyway, that was the only thing I saw. But then I watched the season with her.

[E]

Only my scenes. Only fast forward to just my scenes.

[D]

Okay. Yeah.

[E]

Including like the makeouts and everything. He got a real kick out of it.

[D]

It was great.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, you would have. But here's the thing. Like, would you have. Would you have proposed in three months if you had watched it and she looked like a complete lunatic?

[E]

That's a really good question.

[D]

That is a good.

[E]

And I'm otherwise exactly the same.

[B]

Yeah, she's acting. Exactly. That's.

[D]

That's a great question. Because in the first three months, not all the shoes drop necessarily. Like some of the crazy. You're on your best behavior six months out or a year out. Yeah. So that's an interesting question, but. But it's part and parcel. I mean, she is who she is, so it's impossible that she would have been crazy on the show.

[B]

Well, now you know that.

[D]

Yeah.

[E]

It's true hindsight after over a decade. Yeah.

[C]

So you've been together over a decade, you lived together, you're married, all that stuff. You're married. And what's the. What? You said you wanted to move. You guys want to move?

[D]

We're thinking of moving. Yeah. The city is the city.

[E]

The city. Andy is a lifelong Manhattaner.

[C]

Right.

[E]

And I think he's really.

[C]

So it's a family business. Okay.

[E]

Okay.

[C]

I don't know. Lifelong. That's a lot of money. You gotta live in the city. Okay. I'm wondering.

[E]

And I think he's A country mouse trapped in a city mouse's existence.

[D]

Yeah.

[E]

Personally.

[C]

Okay.

[E]

How about you? You live in Florida?

[C]

I live in Delray. Last year, yes.

[E]

And you used to live.

[C]

I lived in New York.

[E]

And what happened?

[C]

I liked.

[B]

The happiest you've ever been?

[C]

Yeah. I wanted to be near my family, and I wanted to. I was traveling a lot, so I was really here for this podcast and doing stand up, and I was like, I think I can work it out a different way.

[B]

Yeah.

[E]

Yeah. And you're happier, like you said?

[C]

I. You know, I'm happy. I. I don't think that. I think New York has its place for everything, you know, for. For whatever someone's after. But we would keep our apartment.

[E]

I'll put it that way.

[C]

You'd keep your apartment?

[E]

It's just. It's like New York is just. It's always pulling you.

[D]

It's a disease. It gets into you, and it's lifelong. It's like Lyme disease. Does Lyme disease stay with you forever?

[B]

I think so.

[C]

I think it does, yeah.

[B]

I'm terrified of Lyme disease. I know.

[C]

One time away.

[B]

That's actually my biggest fear, I think.

[C]

Biggest.

[D]

I'm with you.

[B]

A tick that's on me that I don't know is on me, that's been there for a while, or you wake

[D]

up and it's, like, got its thing in you already. It's already done. It's business.

[B]

And I live in, like, the woods, so it's probably a bad place, given that that's my biggest fear, but.

[E]

And you have a dog.

[B]

Yes, and I have the dog who I've removed several ticks from. I hear they're making a lot.

[C]

Waiting on you.

[B]

Yeah. Anyway, sorry, that's a digress. Yes.

[C]

You guys talk a lot about reality tv, and so what's the interest? What is the.

[B]

The.

[C]

The thought?

[E]

It was kind of a natural progression, I think. After my time on the Bachelor, I was really fascinated by what had happened to me. Like, I read my journal and I. It had been my first brush with, like, having a therapist because, you know, you speak with someone before and after the show, and I felt myself, like, change in that experience. I learned a lot about myself. Everyone says that, but I felt myself, like, really start to, like, fall for this guy who it. Like, realistically, I never would have. And I just became really fascinated by that. And so I started blogging about it, like, analyzing, edit, and how they would show pickups in that moment. Like, this sentence was, like, stitched together to make that person Say this thing. And then we started the podcast in the pandemic and it sort of just. We started recapping there.

[D]

Yeah. But the podcast, we didn't actually. The podcast was a relationship podcast.

[E]

Yes.

[D]

So I was giving all her friends relationship advice. Her friends have relationship issues, so to speak.

[E]

Andy was the. Or is still is the go to.

[D]

So. So we started a relationship podcast. But then at some point, I think it was what, like six, seven months in.

[E]

Yeah.

[D]

Our producer was like, you really should recap these show. I mean, I think it would be fun. And I didn't want to.

[E]

And I was still writing these recaps, which was like, yeah, I don't want to say that blogging is not as, like, lucrative, but it was definitely a lot more work and it was, you know, it takes a lot more time to put that together. And so we tried it. Andy was real natural.

[D]

Well, what I didn't realize is, number one, you could obviously make fun of the shows, like, mercilessly. And they were there for that. It was a ripe field of making fun of.

[B]

That's what they signed up for, Right?

[D]

Exactly. But is also an inescapable, like, psychological experiment. Like people, I think, go on the show thinking, like, oh, I'm either going to do this just for clout or I'm going to. I think most people probably do it for clout. What's your opinion on that? Is it to find love or clout? Like, what's the percentage break?

[C]

I don't know.

[B]

I think it's more. I think it's like mainly for clout. And then if. But they're open to the idea of love, so.

[D]

So the interesting thing is, even if they're there for the wrong. The wrong reasons, which I think most often they are, they end up having psychological interactions that are unavoidable. And you can see that and analyze it because when you put two people in that sort of petri dish, things happen regardless of what the reason they're there for.

[B]

What's your favorite of the reality show Love is Blind?

[E]

Hands down, it's the king. It blows every other show out of the water.

[B]

Yeah. Well, I think it gets. You get much more like deeper one on one, like nuanced relationship issues.

[E]

Yes. Also what they choose to show us because I feel like sometimes Bachelor, I'm like, is this really what you're going to show us? Talking about them, talking about their relationship yet again?

[B]

Right.

[E]

Instead of a thing that happens that isn't really related to the relationship, but how they handle it shows so Much more about their relationship.

[B]

Right. You got a real world thing to get into.

[E]

Yeah. Yeah.

[D]

And unlike Ultimatum and Temptation island, which are our kind of second and third favorites, I think you can con the system with Love is Blind because you can go in with a fake ish relationship. Or maybe a relationship that was real but now is done.

[E]

Or maybe you're a cuckold or you're.

[D]

Yeah, exactly. Which is a win win. But with Love is Blind, I mean, sure, you can go on for the wrong reasons, but in the end, you're not in a relationship to start, so you can't really fake that part so it seems a little more real.

[B]

Right. And you can't see the other person, so it's not just a sexual thing.

[E]

Which is your favorite?

[B]

I like Love is Blind too.

[C]

Love is Blind is a fun show. I think that. Yeah, I think they're all fun, you know, like, they. They're definitely worth talking about in. In the sense of like a dating and relationship space.

[E]

Yeah.

[B]

I don't really like Love Island.

[D]

We've never actually never seen it, but

[E]

we might start this.

[D]

I think it might start.

[B]

It's a lot. It's every day, right? Yeah, yeah.

[C]

It's a full time job.

[B]

It just feels very, like, superficial. Like everyone is super hot, but there's like, I don't know, it feels like spring break.

[E]

Yeah.

[B]

Not like the real world stuff like Perfect Match vibe.

[D]

Kind of like that.

[B]

I don't think I've seen that one.

[D]

Oh, yeah, that's another.

[C]

What would you guys change to Love is Blind Mind?

[E]

Oh, it's kind of perfect.

[C]

Yeah.

[E]

I would just want more seasons.

[D]

Yeah, More seasons.

[E]

I really love how they go city by city because not only does the relationship seem like it could have legs on the other side, but also like, you see the culture of that city. It's fascinating to me.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

Oh, that's true. Yeah. Like when the one we did last time, the midwestern one, they did Ohio.

[D]

They did the whole state. They're like, they couldn't just get Akron. They're like Columbus, Cleveland. Now we got to do the whole state.

[B]

That's funny.

[A]

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[C]

Well, we have a game that we want to play based on this. True love or true likes. And it's a reality TV couple. Were they in it for true love? Could we have seen it? Or were they just in it for the likes?

[E]

Okay.

[C]

And we're going through each other.

[B]

Some of them are still together.

[C]

Yeah, some are still together, some are not. But was this a couple that you could see just.

[B]

Just in it for the likes of.

[C]

It was a business relationship. Lauren Speed and Cameron Hamilton from Love is Blind. They are still together, married on the show November 2018 and they have a baby. Do you think this is true love or true life?

[E]

So we confess. We haven't seen this season. That's season one, right? Yes. I assume they're. That's true love.

[B]

I would say true.

[E]

When you have a baby together.

[B]

That's true. You've got to be like a real deranged for the likes.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

It's also interesting that, like, if you're not in their like social media silo, you know nothing about them. Like, I don't. They're just a couple to me. I don't really follow either of them. I. I don't see them at the reunions. It's not like I've seen them like pop up a million times.

[B]

Agreed. Also, hot take on any reality show, I think is that anyone who's there season one is more likely to be there for like actual love. Could not agree more because you don't now. It's like, you know what happens when you go on Love is Blind. But this could easily have just been one of those shows that no one ever watches or sees or cares about.

[D]

It wasn't self aware at that point.

[C]

Like season two of a housewives show. The first season you're like, they look like normal people. And then the second season you're like, what happened?

[B]

Now they're performing styles.

[E]

Yeah. If you think about it, season one, they all left probably with a million followers and now it's like 50,000.

[B]

I know.

[C]

Does that matter to you guys? Do you guys. Is what amount of time is spent on the follower stuff?

[E]

Oh, no, I haven't posted to Instagram in a year.

[C]

I'm talking about the people that are on the show.

[E]

Like, oh, I think it matters to them. But I think that, you know, if everyone knew they would get a million followers. Like, if they knew, they didn't know. And that's one of the reasons why they got that many followers.

[D]

Now a lot of the couples that it's part and parcel I don't think they can parse out what's love and what's clout. I think it becomes one monster.

[B]

Yeah. Well, that's why it's hard to. Yeah. Sometimes it's hard to say this one, I think. More True love.

[C]

Jason Tardick and Kaitlin Bristow, the Bachelorette. They split in August 2023. When they were together.

[D]

We had them on the show together, together. Love fest episode.

[E]

Yeah. To talk about the relationship.

[D]

And. Yeah, I'm gonna go with clout on this one.

[B]

Okay. True life.

[C]

What about.

[E]

I think one sided clout.

[D]

Caitlyn was in.

[C]

Okay. You could feel that in the interview.

[E]

Yes.

[C]

What about it made you feel that way?

[D]

I mean, he said there was like a. He felt distant and kind of distracted during the interview, like he had somewhere better to be. Not that our podcast is so amazing that you don't have somewhere better to be. It's very possible, but there was a whole Reddit thread about it, actually, how he just didn't seem like he was. And he was defending it. Like, I had a really bad day at work and I was just like, I don't know, I could have a bad day at work and we're still good, you know, So I think what would.

[C]

A bad day at work?

[B]

You know how business is.

[C]

Yeah, business.

[B]

You know how business goes.

[C]

Sorry. The everyday trials and tribulations of a businessman.

[D]

And incidentally, he did start a podcast that was, I think, powered by the clout Caitlyn gave him.

[E]

I think that this has happened to her.

[D]

Yeah.

[E]

Like this happens to her.

[D]

Yeah. And we love Caitlin.

[E]

We love Caitlin.

[D]

Not that that affected our. Our choice there.

[C]

Amanda Batula and Kyle Cook from somebody else.

[E]

I've never heard of these people.

[B]

Have you seen all the.

[E]

Never seen Summer House?

[B]

That guy seemed like the Western Amanda thing. No. Wow. You're not. Really not.

[C]

No awareness of them whatsoever.

[E]

Never heard of.

[D]

Never seen.

[A]

Like that guy.

[E]

Is that a mullet?

[D]

That's a. It's. Yeah. Like, what is that?

[E]

He almost looks like.

[D]

Yeah, he does. He looked like AI started one person and finished with another one.

[B]

Oh, that's funny.

[C]

Okay, so then you won't know the next one. Amanda Petula and West Fowler.

[E]

No idea.

[C]

No, don't.

[D]

They're not in it for love. I'm telling you right now.

[B]

You can tell. Yeah. I think his face does not scream in it.

[E]

No, no.

[C]

Ashley Iaconetti and Jared Haybon.

[D]

This is love. Ashley Iaconetti and Jared Heybon.

[B]

Yeah.

[E]

We have also had them on.

[C]

It's Love.

[B]

It's love.

[D]

And love. That was hard won by her. By her. She would not quit on him.

[C]

Did you guys do a rewatch of their season or no?

[E]

Of the paradise season?

[D]

We watched their season, but we didn't rewatch it.

[C]

Oh, no. That's what I'm wondering. You watched their season as part of the show?

[D]

Yeah, yeah, we watched their season, then we had them on. But she worked hard for that relationship, and he's happy now, I'm pretty sure. And, you know. Yeah, we believe that now they're doing, like, a Housewives.

[E]

We really like them.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

I don't.

[E]

We. I don't know how they are in the show, though. Real Housewives. Are they. Is it.

[C]

She's great.

[B]

She's great. I mean, she seems like one of

[C]

the more normal people.

[B]

Yeah.

[E]

She's a star.

[D]

She's had a real turn.

[B]

Well, yeah, I. I found her a lot more likable than when I saw her on the Bachelor and then on the show.

[D]

On the Bachelor, she was not likable.

[B]

Yes, but. Yeah, but then on Rhode island, she seems a lot. That was the most recently I've heard of, but they kind of seem like a little bit more like. Like every man.

[D]

Yes.

[E]

Yes.

[B]

Than they. They were.

[E]

Yeah.

[C]

So now we're gonna do Heidi Montag and Spencer Pratt from the Hills.

[E]

You not know who these are?

[D]

I know the Hills, and I know the names, but that's it. So I never watched the Hills.

[E]

I mean, they've been together for so long. Are we really gonna say that that's for clout? It's been, like, what, 20 years? That.

[D]

You know what, that. That's a perfect clout. Love. It's there. You can't separate them.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, they do have two kids also, so.

[D]

Yeah. It doesn't matter.

[E]

I'm sorry, but time.

[D]

I.

[E]

They have time on their side. Like, I do not believe that that's cloud anymore.

[C]

Well, maybe. You know, I think what you're saying, the Cloud is what they connect on.

[D]

Right. Their business partner takes away the cloud and what's left?

[C]

Right. I'm sure that you and your business partner, if you have one, that's a big part of what makes you guys get together and get along.

[D]

Oh, you're right.

[C]

So wait a minute. So you guys review these shows?

[E]

Yeah.

[C]

And then, like, back to work. Turn off the tv. No relation to the outside world of these shows at all.

[E]

Like, don't follow the master.

[C]

It's just strange to me that you have no idea who. Amanda Batula. We never Watched Summerhouse, but no reference to them whatsoever?

[E]

Nothing.

[B]

Are you guys into Bravo?

[E]

No, but.

[C]

No, the other shows. So they don't come up on your algorithm at all?

[E]

We don't do Bravo.

[C]

Just keep going.

[E]

Is that so shocking?

[C]

It's very shocking. I would say. That's actually a crazy thing to say.

[D]

Can I ask you this? Are you disappointed?

[C]

No, I'm just. I'm weirded out.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

Because I think it's strange to take the position you just took of, like, we don't know them at all. No. No way. No how. It was almost defensive, to be honest.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

That you guys went from knowing wholeheartedly about Ashley and Jared.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And having this warmth to them. Them to then, like.

[E]

Because they're from the Bachelor.

[C]

Yeah, I know. But then there was a total stiff arm to the Amanda. Stuff's been in the news for like a month now.

[D]

What did she do?

[C]

No, not. None. Okay. I. I just think that's strange. The business that you work in must be so.

[D]

It's so all.

[C]

So consuming and all consum. Yeah. That you must go from we podcast about this thing to I gotta go to work. I'm done. Turn it off.

[E]

I would say we're most interested in the dynamics on the show. And then whatever happens after the show or with these, you know, peripheral people, we're not really that interest.

[D]

If they discover that those two people are actually aliens from another galaxy. I don't care about anyone's life in this sphere. I just care about the interpersonal relationships on the show and also the incredible lack of interpersonal skills and game that I'm starting to see develop through seasons.

[C]

What's the lack of interpersonal skills?

[D]

Have you watched the. Have you watched people have a conversation on these shows? Look here. Let's go. Ready? Watch.

[E]

Hey.

[D]

I really. I think we have a great connection and. Yeah. I think this could go somewhere. Yeah. And I want to talk about something else about me. Yeah. I really like flowers and I like to motorbike. Okay. We're good. That's a conversation.

[C]

You feel that? That's a generational thing.

[D]

No eye contact, not asking questions, talking about themselves. Like, saying like. Like, like, like, come on. You don't notice that? You don't think that that's different from the first season of the Bachelor?

[C]

I guess I didn't watch the first season of the Bachelor. I guess I noticed that the conversations are lacking. I don't. You know. Oh.

[E]

But maybe it's. Is it your generation?

[D]

If you.

[C]

I guess you could say that.

[D]

If you want 40, right?

[C]

I'm 41. Yeah.

[D]

Okay, so you're still good. So if you go home tonight, right, and you watch season one or even watch Jesse Palmer's season, that's old enough. Watch the season and then watch this season or like whatever. Grant season or Grant. It's a rough season, rough stuff. You will be shocked and amazed at the level of articulation that you will see the difference of articulation, eloquence between now and then. And we're only talking. And again, this is social media, right? This is pre social media or right at the cusp of social media. The level of eloquence is shocking. It's like you're watching like a movie from the 40s, watching Jesse Palmer, who was made fun of from not being very articulate, being like a jock, a dope. Right. And it's truly amazing to see because it's like usually that kind of evolution happens over decades. It's now happened within the span of one decade. Men have gone from well spoken people who look a woman in the eye, ask questions to people who stare into space, talk about themselves, cannot get through ascendance without a million ums or likes. I mean, this has happened in the span of 10 years.

[B]

Well, I have a question. Is it that the generation has changed or is it that the casting has changed because you think about like, because you can get so much more clout than you used to and the goal of all these people is to just be hot on Instagram and get followers and then never have to work again. Are they just casting people who have less to say than they used to? Like, it used to be that the Bachelor was the most eligible man in America. That was like the niche of like this is someone that any woman would want to marry and be with.

[E]

Totally.

[B]

Now it's like anybody trader is a right. Is a software salesman from Wisconsin, which there's nothing wrong with. But would I say that's like the most eligible man in America?

[D]

Right?

[E]

No, I do think social media there

[D]

is definitely some of that. The caliber of contestant I think is probably slightly less. But for everyone to be like this, I think maybe it's just a phase.

[C]

Enjoy the the Golden Bachelor. The first season with Gary. Did you think those conversations were lacking?

[D]

No, no, we were.

[C]

That's kind of. But that I think that's to Jordana's point, they're older. But I'm saying like those people came on with like a, A wide eye, enthusiasm.

[D]

Yes.

[C]

That was very different than, you know, those women especially that Cast Gary was fine, but, like, the women were, like, kind of beloved, but.

[D]

But they also. It's hard to say. It's hard to parse that out from the overall franchise and say that they weren't fully aware of with their careers and their social media followings, because they had already seen 20 seasons of the Bachelor. Right. So I think the difference there is the fact they were baby boomers. Right. Almost leaning into Silent Generation. No, wait, which is. What's the one right before the baby boomer? The Greatest Generation. Silent. Greatest Boomer X, I think. But they were boomers. They were people who never had any Internet growing up or even after college, so.

[B]

Right.

[D]

You know, that's a big difference.

[C]

Right. I don't know. But if you're watching this show with the idea that anyone of this generation has no interpersonal skills, like, are you looking down on these people before they even get a chance to give you.

[D]

No first. Well, I'm not saying no one has interpersonal skills. I'm saying what I see the majority is, is that there are very weak interpersonal skills.

[C]

Okay.

[D]

The majority. And this is just on the TV show. I don't see. I'm not watching guys out there on Tinder.

[C]

Right.

[D]

Or whatever. But I will say that what I see. And don't leave me hanging here. What? Do you agree with me?

[E]

No, I completely agree. I mean, look at, like, let's say Alex or Chris from the most recent season of Love is Blind. I just. You just didn't see men behaving like

[D]

that, and those are extreme examples.

[E]

I do think casting does play a part in this. Like, they're probably casting because they're terrible. Because these shows know that the more terrible the contestants they get, the more

[B]

people are watching drama.

[E]

Yeah. Like, it's gonna make better tv. It's all. They're all feeding the same beast. Also, the more followers you get, the more airtime you get, the more followers you get. And now everyone knows that you can make a career out of that. The first season of the Bachelor, you. That didn't exist, like, on my season. Instagram wasn't even a thing yet.

[C]

Right.

[E]

That wasn't that long ago.

[C]

I felt Connor was, like, a good example of, like. Like, he said he was pretty open about his life and what he was looking for. And I thought, you know, I think it's somewhat simplified to be, like, all the men on these seasons can't speak to these women.

[D]

Well, it's a generalization.

[C]

Sure.

[D]

I'm not saying every single one. Conor, we sung his Praises the whole season. He was.

[C]

I think there's also the acknowledgement of, like, you know, I don't think this is a space for men to really take chances and be themselves and be vulnerable on these shows.

[D]

That's also true.

[C]

You know, the, The. The, you know, who's the punch up, punch down. We've established that, you know, these men are punching down in a way they don't have to, you know, commit. And maybe they're there to have sex and they're. And we assume that all the women are there to, you know, find love, you know, and when that's told after the fact, you know, I, I do think they're aware of social media of, like, where they're villainized and could be, you know, for any, like, mistake and not, you know. No. A relationship that doesn't turn into marriage. No.

[E]

Oh, sorry, I didn't understand.

[C]

If a relationship doesn't turn into a marriage for a guy, he is not a hero on these shows.

[E]

Yeah, but I think there's more ethical ways of going about, you know, not of ending it or speaking to someone approaching someone.

[C]

But also, I'm speaking in the middle case scenarios where people are like. I'm just saying, like, if a guy goes on there to speak on those shows, like, he is really not being looked at, like, as, like, benefit of the doubt scenario.

[E]

I think it depends. I think it's case by case. And, you know, we're focusing on the ones that we were being critical of. But there's also many men across all of these shows that we have really loved. Like, we shower love on some people and we'll criticize others because what we're looking for really is human connection, Right. And if it feels like the people aren't really looking for that or just bearing and, like, just trying to connect with another human, I feel like, what's the point? Isn't that what a relationship is?

[D]

And again, it's the trend, right? It's not black and white. So if you go back and look, do it. It's interesting. Watch an old, old episode of the Bachelor and now watch a new one.

[E]

And I want to add to this just to Jordana's original point. So I went on the Bachelor, right? And when people learn this, they're like, like what you like, that's like, you don't seem like the kind of person who goes on the Bachelor. I went on a time when Instagram wasn't a thing. Like, I had an Instagram. It was 2013. We filmed it aired in 2014.

[B]

Oh, wow.

[E]

Instagram wasn't even really a thing. Like, monetizing Instagram wasn't a thing. There's like, why would you have followers? I had a private Instagram with my ex boyfriend that I never.

[B]

A joint Instagram account.

[E]

No. Like, we just only followed each other.

[D]

Did I ever get to see that?

[E]

Oh, yeah. Well, I just made it public. There was nothing. It was just like. It was like, because I was in a long distance relationship, it was like, very uneventful. I can say now that with what going on these shows has equaled in terms of social media, I would never go on any of these shows today. Right. And this is me. Like, I went on this show.

[D]

Well, that does. To speak to Jared's point, it does suggest that the people going on the show are a different caliber than the people. Different intention. Different caliber than the people who went on.

[B]

The benefits are different.

[D]

The benefits are different.

[E]

But I also, you know, I give credit where credit is due. Like, it takes balls to go on these shows. It was one of the hardest things of my entire adult life to watch myself back on tv, see myself from different angles, criticize myself. Like, no one was harder on me than me, trust me. So I like, in general, I would say we're actually extremely compassionate towards everyone on this show in terms of, like, what they're going through, who's, like, in their ear, what are they being fed? Like, the stuff that we don't see from our sofas. Like, they're being fed a narrative too.

[B]

So you probably have a better sense of what they're being fed having been on it.

[E]

Yeah. That's one of the reasons why we recap it is because there's so much more behind the scenes. Like, look at us with our set right now. Like, there's stuff that people aren't seeing, you know, that makes it all happen. There's someone on the other side of that camera when someone is. Is speaking their truth and they sound terrible.

[B]

Yeah. What did you think when you, when she told you she was on the Bachelor? Like, was there a judge? Was there a judgment?

[D]

No, I actually thought it added value because I found her. So, like, I knew I was gonna marry her the second I heard her open her mouth. Like, I. I know that sounds corny, but what if.

[B]

What if she was a lunatic?

[D]

Her voice?

[E]

Yeah, it was impossible to set my voice at the time.

[D]

It wouldn't have mattered. Total lunatic. I'll take it.

[C]

That's how good of an opera sing that is.

[D]

Well, I actually expected her voice to be really high. And it was actually low. And I was just. And the thing. Anyway, she spoke, and I said, I'm gonna marry this woman. But he said that in his mind. Yes, but. But with that in mind, I just felt like she was just so classy, and so just what I had been looking for my whole life. And then I found out she was on the Bachelor, which is like, look, let's be honest. It's not like, in the grand scheme of classy art, it's not at the top. Can we agree on that?

[B]

On the classy to. On the classy to. On the classy, trashy scale.

[E]

Sure.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

Yeah. Okay. You know, but leveled out by opera. Yes. But the juxtaposition of the fact that she spoke the way she did was the way she was. Was an opera singer and was also on this show just made her more shiny to me. So it.

[C]

Let me snap here. We want everyone to go listen to the Dear Shandy podcast. Go, go, go, go. Check out the recaps. They do. Love is blind. The Bachelor. Go check it out. And it's great to have you guys here.

[D]

Thank you for having us.

[C]

Charlene and Andy, thank you for coming on. We solved dating.

[B]

We did it again.

[C]

We did it again.

[D]

You found out what I do for a living.

[C]

We. I. We will try one. Maybe next episode. That's a second date.

[B]

Maybe off air. You'll get to hear.

[C]

Who knows? I mean, listen, it's. This is a journey. So we'll be back next episode.

[B]

Bye.

[C]

Boom.