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- [00:00]
A
Foreign. Welcome to the U podcast. I am Jared Freed. It is week one of Jordana's maternity leave and, you know, so we're going to have guests here every week to, like, change it up. And we're very excited to have new to the podcast, a very special guest. You know her as your rich bff. She has a new book that is out right now called well endowed Vivian Tu. Thank you for coming on the show and being our first maternity leave guest.
- [00:32]
B
Of course. Thanks for having me.
- [00:34]
A
How are you? What's going on? What's the haps? Generally, give me your general.
- [00:39]
B
You know, listen, I'm. I'm booked and busy. Everything is great. I just got back from Japan.
- [00:44]
A
How was Japan? That is like the place people like. Japan's like a little bit tulumish right now. Like, there was a moment where tulum.
- [00:52]
B
Okay, okay, okay.
- [00:53]
A
The place everyone's going Cartagena. You know, these places become in vogue for a certain generation. How old are you?
- [01:00]
B
I'm 31.
- [01:00]
A
You're 31, so I'm 40. You start to hear these things. We're on the similar, similar algorithms. Japan seems to be like the place that every young woman says to me, I gotta go to Japan. Yeah.
- [01:12]
B
Every single person I know right now is traveling to Japan.
- [01:15]
A
Yeah.
- [01:15]
B
It's so funny. And I feel like it's just because social media has now made it so accessible.
- [01:23]
A
Right.
- [01:23]
B
That you can see what all of your friends are doing, so then you kind of like, copy their trips. But we really wanted to go because I just wanted to eat. I have no other hobbies. So we did sushi, we did yakitori, we did teppanyaki shabu shabby. Like, everything you can think of, we ate.
- [01:38]
A
And the whole thing with their food in Japan, seemingly from afar. I've never been. It seems like it's, like, done meticulously. Like, there's like a. There. There's a dedication to the craft in a way that like, us Americans sit here and go, I don't know, they throw some slop on a plate here. Like, it doesn't seem like we appreciate. Like, I went to Copenhagen and, And I remember going to the hotel and the hotel. I remember the, the, the. The. The furniture being so kind to my eyes. Like, just the, the. The look of the furniture was. The architecture was so pleasing visually. I don't know. You know, it felt like I had a. A huggie around my eyes for some reason. And I. Is that the same kind of feeling when you go to Japan? Like, is the food is There. Is that what you want out of it? You want someone to go, this is like. I heard of this thing about Japanese pizza. Japanese pizza is apparently, like, done, like, scientifically.
- [02:33]
B
Like, I feel like they will take any food and Japan, it meaning, like, they will improve every single ingredient. They'll cook it with tweezers instead of just, like, slopping it all together and.
- [02:43]
A
It'S, like, perfect, you know, and there's good and bad to everything. Like, I don't. I think if my whole life, everything was done with tweezers, I would want, you know, know Mama Celeste pizza from Ohio, who has been making the recipe by, you know, her. Her imagination her whole life. Like, there is good and bad to both sides of it. But I do understand, like, the. When you go as a visitor, you're like, ooh, this is. Everything is just math and done correctly. And I do think us as a generation, you being a younger than me, but I think we crave efficiency. We love ordering the Uber, knowing it's going to get to our door right when we know it will be there. We can go, hey, it's one minute away. The. The, you know, the door dash guy is on his way. I'm looking at his bike on the screen, right? So is that kind of like how it feels? Is like.
- [03:35]
B
Yeah. I do feel like one thing that I miss so much about the US Is like, the. In Japan, every. Everything has a line. Like, you have to queue up for everything. And it's America. You don't really do that. Like, you can either have it delivered to you, and they obviously have delivery, too, but I wasn't, you know, savvy enough to get it done.
- [03:53]
A
You're visiting somewhere, getting delivered to the hotel doesn't really have a.
- [03:57]
B
But I will say I just, like, it was worth the wait. Certain things were very much worth the.
- [04:01]
A
So you get in line for certain food places. Like, there's no reservation system. It's like, there's a line. Get in it, you'll be done. And I'm sure the line, it's kind of. I would assume it's a little bit comforting to know. Yeah, this place moves. Yeah. Like, like the 10 minutes in the seat. Get out. Next up, next up. And they're efficiency. Just Japan just rings that for me.
- [04:22]
B
Yeah.
- [04:23]
A
So you go to Japan with who?
- [04:24]
B
I go with my husband.
- [04:26]
A
Husband. I. I knew you were married just from your social media. Tell us about. So you and your husband. This is a dating show. We're going to get into some dating questions. People, if you're listening. If you're watching on YouTube. Thank you for sticking with us. I know sometimes we, when your regular show gets like, judged up a little bit, change up. I would assume everyone who listens and loves this show knows how happy we are for Jordana and is like going to stick with us here. But we want to just like make sure we care for you. Listen, we're doing the same show. We have the emails, we have the games, we have the icky or picky red flagger deal breaker. We're going to do all that today. But I want to know your relationship. Like what, you know, your husband. How long have you been married? How did you meet? Where did you meet? What's going on?
- [05:09]
B
Okay. So we've been together for like eight and a half years at this point.
- [05:13]
A
Eight and a half years. So this is like post college. Let's get into it.
- [05:17]
B
Yeah. Post college, we met as like young professionals in New York City.
- [05:22]
A
Okay.
- [05:22]
B
We've been married for about a year and a half now.
- [05:25]
A
Good for you. Congratulations.
- [05:26]
B
Thank you so much. He did good, right?
- [05:28]
A
Look at that ring. Holy. You are my rich bff.
- [05:30]
B
That's right, baby.
- [05:31]
A
Oh my God. So he was finance. To finance.
- [05:34]
B
He was in finance. I, um. And we met because he worked on the same team as my girl roommate at the time. And I crashed one of their events, like for their team.
- [05:44]
A
Sure.
- [05:45]
B
Got obviously way too drunk. We had a very fun dance floor makeout.
- [05:49]
A
Love it.
- [05:50]
B
And then we didn't speak for six months. Like, didn't trade numbers, did not connect. Nothing. And then six months later, of course, as you know, luck would have it, ran into him again at another bar and we, you know, we remed and he was like, you know, haha, like we've kissed before.
- [06:07]
A
Right.
- [06:08]
B
And we just ended up hitting it off and we actually did what I like to call like the triple dipper date, which is you go on a date and then you consistently go on a date for like the next three days or the next two days. So you have Friday, Saturday and Sunday.
- [06:21]
A
Right.
- [06:22]
B
And it's been history ever since.
- [06:24]
A
That's great. That can go both ways. You know what? You know the Friday date that turns into Saturday and Sunday turns into. Hey, I'm just really busy right now. That was just hit me during a good time. Yeah. I don't know. It can go all ways. Like I. There are those.
- [06:37]
B
Yeah.
- [06:38]
A
You know, the story that you hear is one way or the other. You don't. You, you know, you either hear. And now.
- [06:44]
B
Yeah.
- [06:44]
A
Married ever since.
- [06:45]
B
I will Say, couldn't get rid of them. Since that weekend, I will say this was a different time. I feel like dating has always been tough, but, like, it was less tough when I was dating. Now I hear some of my friends dating stories, and it seems like it is a toxic waste dump out there. Like, everybody's just ghosting each other. Nobody wants to commit. Everybody's looking for the next best thing. Swiping, swiping, swiping. And like, people aren't actually taking the time to, like, get to know people, which sucks.
- [07:15]
A
Well, I don't, you know, Listen, this was eight years ago that you met your boyfriend. I'm 48 years ago. I was in this game as well, and I was in the game before that. I don't know. I think I. I don't disagree with you that I think that we're hearing more about the toxicity.
- [07:33]
C
I think.
- [07:33]
B
Okay.
- [07:34]
A
I think there's easier ways to do a story time and let people know and get on a hashtag dating and say, I don't know if it's worse or better. I just, you know, it's. I think it's always going to be difficult when you're not meeting the right people, you know, like, and then it's not difficult all of a sudden, it's not difficult. Right, right. You know, and you know that, like, it's.
- [07:57]
B
As soon as you stop looking, it's not difficult.
- [07:58]
A
Well, as soon someone. You go, wow, this was really easy. And they're like, oh, that's what happens when you find a match.
- [08:03]
B
Right.
- [08:04]
A
You know, like, oh, wait a minute. There is no fighting. There's no confusion. Yeah. Because you're both on the same page on a different page with someone. Of course it's hard. Of course it's difficult. Like, but I. So you guys meet on the. I like the idea of meeting, making out, and then reconnecting.
- [08:19]
B
Yeah.
- [08:19]
A
Because I think for that, that story, that's basically like, that's the same as we matched on a dating app before and nothing ever happened.
- [08:28]
B
Right.
- [08:28]
A
You know, like, if you want to, like, because people get so down. The apps and they're like, I match and they didn't talk to me. But like you kissing someone at a bar and then you guys don't talk again, that's the same as matching and.
- [08:39]
B
Not talking, sort of. But I also think it was like, what's the. There's like this scientific thing that, like, you have to see someone's face, like, a certain number of times, and then you'll like them more. Maybe I Just liked him more the second time.
- [08:51]
A
Maybe. Well, maybe more motivated more. You know, the timings, right. That was just a make out. You know, sometimes we like down ourselves. You know, you have that maker and you're like, oh, that was just us being sloppy. Like, who gives a. And then you come back and you're like under different weather and circumstances.
- [09:06]
B
We were more sober the second time.
- [09:08]
A
That helps that.
- [09:09]
B
Very helpful.
- [09:10]
A
Now, did you date before? Like, did you go on the apps? Were you, you know, how old were you when you guys met?
- [09:16]
B
So how old was I? I think I was like 23. 20.
- [09:20]
A
23?
- [09:21]
B
Yeah, 23.
- [09:21]
A
And you're working in finance. You're on the desk. You're doing, you're doing Wall street trading.
- [09:27]
B
Yeah. So I was a trader on Wall street and I was dating. I was on the apps. I think, you know, had definitely had a couple matches here or there on the apps. But also like, because so many of my friends worked in the same industry, we would kind of just like date each other's co workers.
- [09:44]
A
Right.
- [09:44]
B
It was like kind of the easier.
- [09:45]
A
Thing to do the thing. This is the hard part about getting older and, and that's why you're hearing more horror.
- [09:50]
B
Yeah.
- [09:50]
A
Because when you're 23, let's all go out. The, the group is wide. The group is big. You know, like it's friends, you know, like, it's like, that's, that's the thing. Like, it's, it's so funny. You're like, it's, it's got to be harder now. Well, yeah, of course, half of you have gone away and gotten married.
- [10:06]
B
Right. And some of you have kids and.
- [10:09]
A
Some of you have kids and now the group is smaller. The, you know, there's not these randos that are doing, you know, that are highly motivated, highly successful, looking to make out and then wake up early and go make some money on Wall Street.
- [10:23]
C
Right.
- [10:24]
A
You know, now you got a few people that are a little bit jaded. You know, I've been through a breakup. Look, I, I know this is again, it's like, it's so funny. Like we can all say how bad and horrible. I mean, listen, I'm 40 and single and perfect.
- [10:41]
B
I'm putting you my Rolodex.
- [10:42]
A
This is my favorite hobby. I mean, listen, people have tried before. This is not, you're not. Okay, but here, even my reaction to you saying, I'm going to fix you up, right? Because I go, at this point it would be like, like I have to meet like someone that I immediately consider my Best friend.
- [11:01]
B
Right.
- [11:01]
A
And that chances are low. I don't want to meet anybody.
- [11:04]
B
Right.
- [11:05]
A
Like I meet someone new. I'm like, I don't know. I, I got my, I got my people, I text, I got my, my, my go tos. I again, we want comfy, cozy. Change is so hard, you know, so, so you guys start dating. You're. You're 20, how old? You're 27 when you make your move to social media creator.
- [11:24]
B
Yeah, finance.
- [11:25]
A
Like, I mean, like, how is that weigh on the relationship?
- [11:29]
B
So I think I must have been, what was it, four or five years ago? So, yeah, I was probably like 26, 27 when I started social media.
- [11:39]
A
Who was harder to tell that you want to take this new endeavor? Your now husband or your parents?
- [11:45]
B
Parents for sure. Parents for sure. Because you know what? The social media thing was never meant to be. Like, oh, I'm a creator. Like, I started posting finance content on social media to help my co workers at work so they would stop harassing me during the workday and they thought it was gonna be like a fun little thing. First video.
- [12:03]
A
Why were they harassing you?
- [12:05]
B
Because they knew that I had come from Wall street and I was at this new media job and so now they were like, oh, you have a finance background. You're going to help me rebalance my 401k.
- [12:13]
A
Why did you go from finance to media?
- [12:16]
B
Because when I left the industry, I felt like I was not in a position to succeed. I started my career under this manager. She was amazing, taught me everything I knew. Still mentor of mine was at my wedding. But then they like, the desk pivoted. Basically the head of the desk got fired. That fired a bunch of, you know, other people on the team when they brought in the new guy.
- [12:38]
A
And can you back up for a second? Because I've been. I live in New York and I lived or I lived in New York for 18 years, so I've come across a lot of finance people. Yeah, the desk.
- [12:49]
B
The desk.
- [12:50]
A
Like, let's start at the desk. What is that like? Because I think like, you know, I hear that it's kind of an area of Brooklyn. I go, oh, cool. I just act like I know where. Yeah, I don't know where any area of Brooklyn is. I don't care.
- [13:01]
B
The desk.
- [13:01]
A
I hear the desk. I've been hearing this since minute one. Being in the city. What's the desk?
- [13:06]
B
The desk is just the team that you work with. And the reason it's called the desk is because when you're in trading, you Sit on, like, a floor. It's like a very, very large open area, and it's one massive conjoined desk that the entire team sits at.
- [13:21]
A
And are you trading one product? Are you like, is it like, you guys work on one specific type of finance? Is that, like, what it is?
- [13:31]
B
So I traded equities, AKA stocks.
- [13:33]
A
Okay, so you're doing stocks for a fund. Is it a family? Is it.
- [13:37]
B
So I'm at JP Morgan.
- [13:39]
A
Whose money are you playing with?
- [13:40]
B
Yeah, so I'm at JP Morgan, meaning I'm on the sell side. So I was trading on behalf of hedge funds, asset managers, insurance companies, all of that. And I was basically like, they were our clients, and I was providing them a service.
- [13:54]
A
Now, that's so different than personal finance.
- [13:57]
B
Yeah.
- [13:58]
A
So you go to a media company, you're like, okay, the desk has changed. I'm going to go into media. And you start working this new media job. All your coworkers are like, please help me. I don't know how to do my 401k. How do I allocate it? You know, now you're in personal finance land, which is like, retail compared to, like, you wholesale.
- [14:13]
B
Well, but because I had had that incredible mentor, she had really guided me through my personal finances because she was the first rich Asian woman I had ever met. And I was so impressed. And she was like, are you contributing to your 401k? Are you using the company catalog to save on hotels? Are you doing all of these things? And I, like, wasn't doing any of them right, so. So she gets me right, and I'm there. And once I feel like I have my money in a really good spot, that's roughly when the tide turned. And I ended up leaving, going to buzzfeed. And at buzzfeed is where all of my new co workers were asking me the same questions I was asking her.
- [14:50]
A
Right.
- [14:50]
B
So now I suddenly had the answers for them. And I felt like as I started to make more money and save more money and invest more money, I became, like, more into the personal finance space because it felt like a way to just, like, ultimately get what I wanted out of life.
- [15:03]
A
Right. How do I. How do I take this extra money and make it, like, work a little harder for me?
- [15:09]
B
Yeah.
- [15:10]
A
Find those deals like you're doing.
- [15:11]
B
Retire as early as possible. Like, people don't get that. Like, I do not want to work hard. I want to lay down.
- [15:15]
A
You're done. Yeah, it's over.
- [15:17]
B
I want to make my money work really, really hard. I do not want to Work very, very hard.
- [15:20]
A
Right?
- [15:20]
B
Because I can only work, let's call it 14 hours a day.
- [15:24]
A
Yeah.
- [15:24]
B
Before my body breaks down, my head starts to hurt. But your money can work 24 7, right? So, like, why not?
- [15:30]
A
I used to sell life insurance. And I remember when I did that, there was a guy who used to. On the subject, his, his big advice was always make the mailman work for you. And he was like, send mailers, send mail. He's like that. Now the mailman for 25, you know, 40 cent stamp is now your coworker, you know, someone who works for you. And you're like. And I always thought that concept was very interesting, that idea that, like, okay, how do I make sure that there are these people out there that are unknowing to them, you know, have no idea that they're out there on my behalf. And I, I actually think it relates to dating because what, you know, I always, I think a big part of dating. And the thing people forget, you're looking at me going, I'm putting you in my Rolodex. Like, that's very nice of you. I think that's great. I think you might actually take. You would actually do that? Maybe you meet someone that you go, you know, I just did this podcast with this, yeah, loud, annoying, chubby Jew. And I really think you would be a match for him. Maybe you do.
- [16:34]
B
I feel like we got to work on the PR spin of how we describe you.
- [16:37]
A
That might have been someone's porn category that I just described. You don't know. Okay, Some people. So listen, I'm just trying to differentiate, but I'm saying, you know, you might do that, but I think your husband would never do that for me. Like, your husband wouldn't listen to this podcast and go, I gotta fix that guy up. He would never do that. I just know I would never do that. So I think just. Men don't do that. So how do I make your husband work for me? So I, as any single person, my biggest advice, and this is on the subject, like, let's take finance related to dating. Go make the husband work for you. Go hang out with Vivian and her guy who's on a desk with. With a bunch of other men and make him. And a husband's never going to fix you up. A husband's going to go, you know, you know, who's cool, you know, who's, you know, who's.
- [17:23]
B
Actually, can I tell you something, though?
- [17:24]
A
Please.
- [17:25]
B
My husband would never set anyone up because he has openly admitted he's like my single friends. Probably not dateable. All dirtbags. Or it's like all of the friends that he would recommend to someone. They're married.
- [17:39]
A
Here's. Here's again. You're just in no land. I'm not asking him to fix anyone.
- [17:44]
B
Yeah, okay.
- [17:44]
A
I'm asking him to go, oh, yeah, they're cool. That's all I'm asking.
- [17:48]
B
All you want is just a little green flag.
- [17:49]
A
A little green flag? Yeah, because that's all a husband's gonna do. Your husband's never gonna set someone up. What you're asking. What you just said. Never gonna happen. Like, your husband's never gonna be like. And I think I should bring Jared over to, like, one of his single scumbag friends. One of his single scumbag friends all of a sudden won't be a scumbag. Everyone's scumbag is someone else's husband.
- [18:09]
B
That's true. That's true.
- [18:10]
A
Right, so your. Your husband's friends are all there waiting to be someone else's. Not scumbag.
- [18:16]
B
Okay.
- [18:16]
A
Scumbag to you because they don't want to you.
- [18:19]
B
Yeah, probably.
- [18:20]
A
So you hear them at their most honest. So now I'm just saying, if your friends. If someone has a Vivian 2 in their life that's married with a husband on the trading desk that's out there killing it, he's amongst a bunch of other guys who are also out there killing it. Also will settle down eventually. Eventually. And it's going to be with someone that's fair.
- [18:40]
B
And. And, you know, it's probably whoever's just in front of them at the right time when they decide to settle down.
- [18:43]
A
Right. Well, like, I mean, we could. It's going to sound more romantic from your friend.
- [18:47]
B
Okay, fair enough. Fair enough.
- [18:48]
A
You know, you say it that way, they say it as well. We were making out in a bar.
- [18:53]
B
Okay. Okay.
- [18:54]
A
And then six months later, all of a sudden, he had the time. You know, your story changes. So I think with like, the mailman work for you having. I don't want to. I want to lay down. I don't want to work. I want these things and that work harder for me.
- [19:08]
B
I think it's also about, like, the favors economy. Like, we have outsourced our friends. Like, now instead of asking your neighbor to, like, drive you to the airport or saying, hey, like, you're out of town, I'm happy to watch Rover for a week or being like, hey, I know somebody who knows somebody that I think you should go get a drink with. It's like, we have an app for everything.
- [19:30]
A
You bring up a great point. And now there's like, you know, the Uber driver. You can't tell the Uber driver. So I'm single and I'm looking and I'm out there. And then the Uber driver doesn't go, well, you gotta meet my friend. So we're talking less to these people. We're talking less to the person that helps you with your dog. We're talking less to the person that would have driven you to the airport. So that means we have to make a commitment. If we were going to, like, have a winter dating challenge. Make a commitment to hang out with your married friends and start talking to them so they know what the hell's going on in your life.
- [20:01]
B
Yeah.
- [20:04]
C
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- [22:36]
A
Okay, we're going to do some emails. We're here with Vivian too. You're rich. BFF on social media. The book is called well Endowed and there's like calculators and stuff. There's like, there's like, it's kind of like a workbook. Well, so based on what I.
- [22:50]
B
There's digital resources, but it's a true book that you read through and that at the end of each chapter there's like a checklist you can do. So like it's very interactive. I want people to like do stuff while they read this book, but I feel like people love it already just because it's titled well endowed.
- [23:05]
A
Right. Why wouldn't, why wouldn't anyone want to be well and I want to be okay, so let's do some emails. You ready? Jared and Vivian, my partner, 35, and I, 32, female, are planning to get engaged this year. We wanted some guidance on how to handle finances as a couple. Our incomes are different. He makes 170,000 and I make 110,000. And right now we split, split our 5,000amonth rent almost equally with him paying $250 more. Okay. He just got a $25,000 raise last month. And as I am so happy is doing well at work. But after a month, I'm curious, should we reevaluate the split? We're wondering about the best approach. When incomes aren't the same, should couples aim for an equal split or a fair proportional split? If so, is there an equation? Additionally, we want to start saving and investing together before getting engaged.
- [23:55]
B
We.
- [23:55]
A
What conversations should we be having about finances? And is opening a joint bank account important at this stage? Best money talk scares me. Help me overcome my fear. Wow, Vivian, this is a very. There's a lot here.
- [24:09]
B
There's a good question.
- [24:09]
A
It's a great question. Great questions. It's a. It's a bunch in one. I love the sign off because it does ring true based on, like, my, you know, you get like a ping from an email. Money talk scares me. Help me overcome my fear. It seems as though.
- [24:24]
B
Sure.
- [24:24]
A
Her solve to this is like, let's make it math.
- [24:27]
B
Yeah.
- [24:28]
A
Is that kind of the way to go? I think it's with. With relationships and money. Is it. Is it make it math? Kind of like the. That's a good first step.
- [24:38]
B
I think it's a great first step. But I will say money in relationships is an art, not a science.
- [24:43]
A
Yeah.
- [24:44]
B
Like, do I think her and her partner should actually calculate out the prorated amounts of rent that they each should pay based on their income? Yeah, I do. Because I don't think it should be that close to a 5050 split.
- [24:59]
A
Well, it's funny, you know, money's emotional based on how she wrote it, because she writes. She writes, he makes. Right now we split our $5,000 rent almost equally with him paying $250 more. Like, that's almost like. To me, that's. That. That's crazy the way she wrote it. Well, to say almost equally is like she's trying to convince us. Like. Yeah, she could just say, like, she goes from emotional to math in that sentence. So she's dealing with it. To me, if I hear we split it almost equally, but he spends $250 more. So you don't split it equally. You know, I mean, almost to who? Yeah, almost is an emotional word in there. So she is already starting to feel badly towards her partner on this subject. To me, that is. To me, that is the bad seed.
- [25:53]
B
That's the resentment.
- [25:54]
A
That's the resentment. Exactly. That's the word I'm looking for.
- [25:56]
B
Here's the reason why I think this is so important to address head on and quickly in their relationship. It's because as the person who makes less, you have to think about it from a commensurate burden on your finances.
- [26:10]
A
Okay?
- [26:11]
B
So like if you are going 50, 50 on rent, like you and I are in this situation, we're going halfies, you still definitely have money left over for the sushi dinners, to go to the bar with friends, to probably go to that concert.
- [26:22]
A
Right.
- [26:23]
B
But I have enough to probably cover the rent. And then maybe I can't do all of those things. And now all of a sudden, I hate you for being able to go get sushi.
- [26:32]
A
Right?
- [26:32]
B
And I'm like, well, he's going out with his friends to go get a drink at the bar. I want to do that, but I don't have any money.
- [26:38]
A
And he's doing it stress free.
- [26:40]
B
Stress free.
- [26:41]
A
You're doing it with stress. Stress is again, to go back to the almost word. Yeah. Is an emotional thing that you can't expl. Explain. It's like pain tolerance. Like, what is it, one to ten? You go, well, it's a seven. Then you say it's a three.
- [26:52]
B
Yeah, it's different.
- [26:53]
A
It's different. And it's hard to like, impart.
- [26:56]
B
And so I think talking over the proportional split is super helpful. I actually get this question a lot.
- [27:03]
A
Okay.
- [27:03]
B
So I built a rent split calculator for people who pre order well endowed.
- [27:09]
A
Okay.
- [27:10]
B
Because I think it's so important to be able to just pop in how much you make. And then I also cover other things to consider how much debt someone has. So if one person, you know, the person who makes a little bit more has a lot of other burdens. So maybe they're helping their family out, or they've got big student loans and you make less, but your parents paid for your college and you don't have any other expenses. That also impacts the calculus.
- [27:34]
A
Interesting.
- [27:35]
B
I don't think it's fair if the person who earns more but may come from a first gen background or. And then this person who makes less, who may have a trust fund that they can ultimately fall back on.
- [27:46]
A
Right.
- [27:47]
B
Are having the same conversation. Because you have to consider both the ads and the subtraction.
- [27:52]
A
To go back to the word resentment, that's where it starts. Because instead of we're splitting it equally. Well, she splits it equally with me. But she also has, you know, the, you know, the Scrooge McDuck, you know, bank vault she takes a dip in every week.
- [28:06]
B
Exactly.
- [28:06]
A
Yeah. That's interesting. So you and your husband, let's make it personal?
- [28:09]
B
Yeah.
- [28:09]
A
You and your husband move in together?
- [28:10]
B
We did this exact same thing, actually.
- [28:11]
A
So how do you. What was the breakup? Who was making more, who was making less? How did you guys.
- [28:16]
B
Yeah, so this was probably like two, three years into our relationship. We moved into this new apartment, and he was making probably two or three times as much as I was making. Okay, so he was making a lot more money. And because of that, we prorated our rent based on how much he was making and how much I was making.
- [28:35]
A
Explain. Prorated. I'm an idiot.
- [28:36]
B
Prorated. Basically, you add up the total amount, and so it's your income plus my income.
- [28:43]
A
Okay.
- [28:44]
B
That gives you the bigger number at.
- [28:45]
A
The bottom, your income. My income. Okay, let's put an even hundred thousand.
- [28:50]
B
Great. Okay, so say you make 70, I make 30.
- [28:53]
A
Okay, we have a hundred thousand.
- [28:54]
B
Yes. So that's really easy. Right? 70 divided by 100. That's 70%. 30 divided by 100. Let me.
- [29:00]
A
Let me get my mind. Okay. I haven't done math in a long time.
- [29:05]
B
Okay.
- [29:05]
A
So I'm an artist.
- [29:07]
B
70,000. 30,000.
- [29:08]
A
Okay.
- [29:09]
B
That means you make up 70% of our total household income, and I make up 30% of our total household income. So when it comes to the rent, you should be paying for 70%.
- [29:20]
A
70% of the household, correct. 30% of the household, yes. Okay, so let's say the rents, you know, $10,000.
- [29:28]
B
We first of all, should not have a $10,000 apartment.
- [29:30]
A
Probably living a little higher.
- [29:31]
B
We're living very large.
- [29:32]
A
Yeah.
- [29:33]
B
Incredible. Incredibly large.
- [29:34]
A
I'm trying to make the math easy on myself so I don't embarrass myself. So it would be 7,000 and 3,003.
- [29:39]
B
Correct.
- [29:40]
A
So you think this is what they should do?
- [29:41]
B
Yeah, let's put our.
- [29:43]
A
Okay, so hold on, let's go back to this example. We. I make 70, you make 30, we make 100. As a household, we have a thousand dollar a month rent. Okay, So I pay $700. $300. You have a trust fund with a family money that, you know, no burdens, no debt. I have, you know, I got a $500 a month debt that I'm paying.
- [30:05]
C
Yeah.
- [30:06]
A
For my student loans. How do you do that?
- [30:07]
B
Basically, you essentially pull down what your income looks like because you have obligations. So say you make $70,000 a year, but that $500 a month in that $6,000, you take that out of your. And we have to be doing this with after tax numbers. Okay, so assume you make 70,000 after.
- [30:27]
A
Taxes to make the Math, easy.
- [30:29]
B
Yep. And then you take down the six.
- [30:31]
A
Right.
- [30:32]
B
Okay, so now you have. What is it, 64,000.
- [30:35]
A
Yeah.
- [30:35]
B
I also get $500 from my papa every single. Every single month.
- [30:42]
A
So add six grand on you. So now you're at 36, and I'm at 64.
- [30:48]
B
So now, again, fortunately, the math is still really easy here.
- [30:51]
A
Right? I mean, keep it easy. We don't have to be difficult.
- [30:54]
B
Now you're paying 60, 64%.
- [30:56]
A
But this discussion that we're having right now, this emailer, this person, hypothetically, who's in this situation, this is what you're doing.
- [31:03]
B
This is exactly.
- [31:03]
A
This is what you're doing with your husband, with your now what month of your dating. Are you talking finances with your first date? First date.
- [31:11]
B
First date. Because you're not showing up to the first day and being like, show me your tax return. That's weird. But you can ask a question, like, if you tomorrow woke up and realized you inherited enough money to fund the rest of your life, what would you do for a living?
- [31:29]
A
So this is like feelings, questions, feelings, but numbers. So I got. I got you. So we want to do. If you're really. If this is on your mind.
- [31:38]
B
Yeah.
- [31:38]
A
If you're like, first date, I want to make sure that we connect on this level. That's a fun que. Make it fun. Make it fun. Right. Ms. Frizzle this. You know, like, let's make another school bus.
- [31:48]
B
Another good one is. Okay. So if I gave you $100,000 to plan your dream vacation, what would you do? The person who says, I would go climb Mount Kilimanjaro or the Andes Mountains or Mount Everest, which, by the way, is very expensive to do.
- [32:04]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [32:05]
B
Versus someone like me who's like, well, I would go and stay at the Amman in.
- [32:11]
A
You know, Amman's one of those hotels for those that don't know. That's what. That's how you know Vivian's very rich. Because it is, like, not even advertised. Like, it is like, out in a desert, and then they. You can't see other things in the distance.
- [32:25]
B
Yeah.
- [32:25]
A
Like, the. The whole hotel is built on. You won't look at a human. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [32:30]
B
Like, if I wanted, like, the Four.
- [32:32]
A
Seasons, like, they take a. On the Four Seasons.
- [32:34]
B
Correct.
- [32:35]
A
Yeah.
- [32:35]
B
So, like, I. If I say I want to go to the Iman, I want to get a massage every single day.
- [32:39]
A
Yeah.
- [32:39]
B
I want to sit in silence. I don't want to see other human beings. And I literally just want to read my book. Those Two people are probably very different.
- [32:48]
A
Do you think those two people could ever date?
- [32:50]
B
I do. As long as each of them is willing to do the other person's activity without resentment and without complaint. Because ultimately, it's all about compromise. Like, my husband is a fly and flop. He wants to fly somewhere and sit on a beach chair for two weeks.
- [33:05]
A
Right.
- [33:05]
B
I am someone who loves to be stimulated and I love to do an activity. Okay, so when we were in Japan. Exactly.
- [33:11]
A
Yeah.
- [33:12]
B
We spent part of the trip doing the seafood market tour and training Iaido, which is like the samurai swordsmanship.
- [33:20]
A
Right.
- [33:20]
B
Because I wanted to do those things. But then another part of the trip was we went to a. We stayed at an Amman.
- [33:26]
A
Yeah.
- [33:26]
B
And it was a private onsen. We went to the spa, we relaxed, we ate a bunch.
- [33:32]
A
You got a little bit of everything.
- [33:33]
B
Yeah. You got to do both.
- [33:34]
A
Right. But also, you know, to get to a more uncomfortable space, you both had to have. Afford that.
- [33:41]
B
Yeah.
- [33:41]
A
Do you think people from two different socioeconomic backgrounds can, like, get together like that?
- [33:46]
B
I think it's possible.
- [33:47]
A
You think if your husband was poor, you could be with him?
- [33:49]
B
My husband?
- [33:50]
A
Yeah.
- [33:51]
B
When I met my husband, I was the broke one. Like, I had. I had very little. He treated me so well. He was so generous. And now I am the breadwinner.
- [34:01]
A
Right.
- [34:01]
B
So, like, do you think it could.
- [34:02]
A
Have worked the other way, though?
- [34:04]
B
I don't know if I'm really, really.
- [34:06]
A
I mean, that's not. That's not a prying question. That's not like. Because I do. I hear what you're saying. That's a lot of the position of male. Female relationships too.
- [34:14]
B
I will say I think it's hard even with a more traditional gender role of like, rich guy, broke girl. Like, I think it's actually very challenging to date into stratospherically different socioeconomic classes. So I think, like, if somebody.
- [34:31]
A
I agree with you.
- [34:32]
B
If someone's like, lower middle class and the other person's like upper middle class, I think that bridge can be gap. Like, that gap can be bridged pretty easily. But if you are someone who grew up on government assistance and then your partner is someone who came from generational. Generational, like Rockefeller money.
- [34:50]
A
Sure.
- [34:50]
B
One, I think the odds of you guys having anything to relate on in the early stages of your dating are, one, limited. But two, like, I think there are just going to be differences that may become very hard to accept. I am very much someone who thinks there is such thing as socioeconomic mobility. But people ask me all the time. They DM me because they're like, your husband's rich. Like, how'd you find him?
- [35:20]
A
Right.
- [35:20]
B
And I'm like, you do realize that if you want to date someone who went to Harvard, in the general populace, that is incredibly challenging to do. But if you go to Harvard, it's actually really easy.
- [35:32]
A
Right. Because you're amongst.
- [35:33]
B
You're amongst your peers.
- [35:34]
A
Like, what you're saying is very true because it's also like, you know, the person that's on some form of welfare and the person that's from generational wealth, they're just not going to meet.
- [35:44]
B
There's very seriously.
- [35:45]
A
They're going to run into each other, you know, unless it's, you know, it's not a rom com, you know, like. But I guess to go back to something you said in the beginning that I, I disagree with a little bit, but I think I'm now coming to understand why you might believe this, how hard and disposable everyone is these days. You're probably talking to highly successful women.
- [36:05]
B
I think that's probably right. I think.
- [36:07]
A
But if you're talking to highly successful women, the poor, the pool smaller for who they're attracted to.
- [36:15]
B
Yeah.
- [36:15]
A
Now you're. You're told, okay, go with, you know, the idea of going to your small town and meeting the garbage man and being like, falling in love.
- [36:22]
B
Lifetime movies.
- [36:23]
A
Right. That's cute. But, like, does that happen?
- [36:26]
B
And then does it become a problem when she wants to go on vacation and she doesn't. She doesn't even expect him to pay for it, but she expects him to pick up his half and he can't.
- [36:36]
A
Right. Right. This is. And that's a more reasonable, you know, discussion.
- [36:40]
B
Yeah.
- [36:41]
A
He can't. His half. You're not saying I need, you know, this is sugar daddy. Right? Right. That. That's where this conversation gets into Internet land and extremism and rage bait.
- [36:50]
B
Though I do think that there is a level of gender disparity that, like, a rich guy would pay for the broke girl to go to the iman with him. And then a rich woman may not want to do that.
- [36:59]
A
Right.
- [37:00]
B
And I think that's something that, like, we should probably talk about as a society.
- [37:04]
A
I don't know if, you know, I. It's funny because, like, this podcast has always been about telling you the weather.
- [37:10]
B
Yeah.
- [37:11]
A
Not changing the weather.
- [37:12]
B
Yeah.
- [37:12]
A
You know, because I can't do that. I can't promise, can't fix it. Right. I. But what you're saying is acknowledging it is way more of a interesting Conversation and like, you know, because I, I do, I hear what you're saying. Like the, the Amman Hotel like is so nice that there is a large percentage, our audience googling it to see what the it is right now, you know, so, so I, I only know it because it came up I think on a tick tock with like the most unbelievable hotels in the world. And I was like, wow, this is crazy that there's a hotel chain I didn't even know, you know. So it is interesting when it comes to dating and like, you know, women making good money and that's why you hear a lot like men are intimidated. And it's like, yeah, I don't know, we've talked about that here.
- [37:58]
B
Like, I think men are intimidated because they have been told that their only way to provide value is to be a financially like to bring finances into the family. But I actually think if you are dating a man and the only thing that they bring to the table is money, you're actually dating an incredibly poor person.
- [38:15]
A
Okay.
- [38:16]
B
Because I feel like that shouldn't be the only thing that a man can bring to the table. Like my husband, considering all the money he makes.
- [38:29]
A
Right.
- [38:29]
B
He is still the one who does our laundry. He is still the one who takes out the trash. He is the one who, who takes care of me when I'm sick. He is so kind and generous in so many ways that have nothing to do with a dollar sign.
- [38:43]
A
Right.
- [38:43]
B
And that's why I picked him. I found the last good man in New York City. I feel at least.
- [38:47]
A
Well, you know, I, I, you also saw that he was successful and, and able and, and I do think that works into it. Like you know, the idea that he's, I don't think I, I honestly like, I think a lot of the things that men deal with in the dating world is like your kindness doesn't, it doesn't start with kindness. No, it starts with look at that guy, works hard. That guy is a, but it does, has potential and is kind.
- [39:14]
B
Yes, yes.
- [39:15]
A
You know what I mean? I'm not saying kindness is nothing. I just remember this is the problem that I think like we, the, the dating conversation from the male end is so fraudulent. Like I think the, the arguments made.
- [39:26]
B
We'Re telling them the value the wrong things.
- [39:28]
A
We're telling them the value of the wrong things but then we're also ignoring their emotional state. In this, like you're told your whole life you are valuable if you do well and that's why women will like you.
- [39:37]
B
Yeah.
- [39:38]
A
And then you know, we're sitting here saying, well, it's that, but also because.
- [39:42]
B
You have to be nice.
- [39:42]
A
Yeah. Be nice and do the laundry and be a good husband. And there's other things you can value. But it's like, would you date someone who sits on their couch and doesn't want to get a job but is incredibly kind?
- [39:54]
B
No.
- [39:54]
A
Right. And that's okay.
- [39:55]
B
Okay.
- [39:56]
A
I wouldn't date a woman who does, who does the same thing. But also, there are guys that wouldn't even give a shit. They go, she's hot. And that's not right either.
- [40:05]
B
Back to that point.
- [40:05]
A
Yeah.
- [40:06]
B
Of. If you have all of the. The boxes are checked, meaning you make a good income, you're doing all that. If you're not kind, you're still undateable.
- [40:15]
A
Right.
- [40:16]
B
Like, maybe you'll have, like, some hot thing on your arm for a month or two and then get the new flavor of the month, but, like, you're not gonna have, like, a really meaningful relationship. I don't think.
- [40:25]
A
Yeah, I don't think. I, I don't think they're gonna, like, want to even be with someone for long term. I think kindness also works into, like, being with someone, you know, like, and having the capacity for, like, a real relationship. But I, I think these, these conversations are interesting because they make people angry.
- [40:40]
B
Yeah.
- [40:41]
A
You know, like, we're talking around this a little bit because we know you're. You're hearing an Internet comment from someone.
- [40:46]
B
Yeah.
- [40:47]
A
Who's like, well, I have a husband who doesn't make. It's like, yeah, we're not talking about that.
- [40:51]
B
Yeah.
- [40:51]
A
You know, this is a generalized conversation that is exists for a reason.
- [40:56]
B
Yeah. And I think we can have a conversation around what is societal norm. There's going to be outliers in every single case.
- [41:05]
A
Sure, sure. Thy ticket lady, Jennifer of Coolidge. Well, many thanks, good sir. Here is my Discover card.
- [41:17]
B
They accept Discover at Renaissance fairs. Yeah, they do here.
- [41:21]
A
Discover is accepted at the places I love to shop. Get it with the times.
- [41:26]
C
With the times.
- [41:27]
B
You're playing the loot. Yeah.
- [41:30]
A
And it sounds pretty good, right? Discover is accepted at 99 of places that take credit cards nationwide. Based on the February 2025 Nielsen report. This next one, this is an eighth year. Picky. So we play this game on the show all the time. You are dating someone, you get the ick. Is it a true ick or are you just being picky? Okay, so we're going to give this person feedback. Ready? J and J and guest Vivian. I'm 32 dating in Chicago area.
- [41:57]
B
And I. I went to school in Chicago, so I'm praying for you.
- [42:00]
A
Where you went to school in Chicago? You. You went on dates during school? Did you go to, like, on dates?
- [42:06]
B
Yeah.
- [42:06]
A
Bad dates?
- [42:07]
B
Yeah, lots.
- [42:08]
A
Give us a bad day.
- [42:10]
B
There was one where I went on a date with this guy, and he said that he. It was like, my junior senior year, and he was like, oh, yeah, Like, I work at this place. And he wouldn't tell me where he worked. But then he described it. But, like, I also had worked in finance at that point. I interned. So I. I was like, so you work xyz? And he was like, yeah. And then as soon as I guessed it, he was like, well, yeah, I make, you know, however much money a year. He was like, $350,000. And I was like, okay, this guy, like, sucks. I need to, like, entertain myself on this date. So I drank a bunch of Long island iced teas, and I got so drunk I, like, couldn't see. And then when they brought out the actual food menu, it was really dark. And to be fair, I have very bad eyes. Like, minus seven prescription in both.
- [42:58]
A
Like, okay.
- [42:59]
B
I have perfect vision.
- [43:00]
A
Perfect vision. So I don't even. I know. I'm sorry. I don't even know the conversation. It's like when, like. It's like when a new mother tells me how much their baby weighs. I'm like, I'm a single guy. I don't.
- [43:10]
B
You're like, I don't know this. Okay. But, like, I really have bad eyes to begin with. But then I couldn't see the menu, and I was like, ugh. Like, I'm blind. And he was like, what? And I was like, yeah. And I, like, don't even know why I said that.
- [43:22]
A
Yeah.
- [43:22]
B
But then I just kept up the bit for the rest of the day. But then as soon as I want, like, the date was over and I wanted to leave, I, like, looked down in my Uber app, called a car, and I left. And he was like, so you saw the Uber on your phone?
- [43:33]
A
And I was like, so midway through the day.
- [43:36]
B
Yeah.
- [43:36]
A
I'm blind.
- [43:37]
B
I'm blind.
- [43:38]
A
That's just it. Yeah. Just, I can't see. Where am I?
- [43:42]
B
Yeah.
- [43:43]
A
And he was like, what?
- [43:44]
B
Yeah.
- [43:45]
A
He probably goes around telling a story about this.
- [43:47]
B
About this? Yeah, probably. Yeah. Good for him.
- [43:49]
A
Well, this is on the same subject, so telling someone what you make on a date.
- [43:53]
B
Yeah.
- [43:54]
A
Is, like, crazy. No. No. I can't even see how that comes up.
- [43:57]
B
I feel like that is a conversation that 1000% needs to be had in a relationship.
- [44:03]
A
Right.
- [44:04]
B
But on a, like a first date.
- [44:06]
A
Well, this person. I keep getting the same ick. Men bringing up how much money they make way too early. I'm not asking, I'm not hinting. And we're not talking about a future yet. Yet somehow salary gets dropped in a casual conversation, like it's supposed to mean something. For example, one guy mentioned his job in a totally normal way. Just talking about what he does day to day. Then instead of leaving it there, he followed up with something like, yeah, so with bonuses, I'm clearing around X year. Even though I hadn't asked anything about income, it felt like the job explanation wasn't enough on its own. Like he needed to attach a dollar amount to it.
- [44:37]
B
I bet this, this reader, like the person who wrote in is like really hot and they're trying to impress her.
- [44:42]
A
That's interesting. Right? I mean, to go back to our conversation before. What is your value as a man? I make this and my personality can't really keep up.
- [44:51]
B
Right.
- [44:52]
A
What I.
- [44:52]
B
They're like trying to convince her that they're a great partner because of these things, when in fact it'd be a lot easier to convince her of that if they were just normal.
- [45:00]
A
Right. Well, they can't be normal.
- [45:01]
B
Yeah.
- [45:02]
A
You know, they don't know how to be normal. So let me just show you these facts and figures.
- [45:05]
B
Yeah.
- [45:05]
A
You know, it is a straight. It is like all of it goes back to what were you told will get you laid from birth.
- [45:12]
B
But they're trying to make up for a lack of personality with stock options and like it's not working.
- [45:17]
A
And that really, you can't. You, you end up with a person as, you know, as insecure as you. Right. And that's why you see horrible couples, they find each other.
- [45:28]
C
Yeah.
- [45:29]
B
You know, but listen, there is someone out there for everybody. I really believe that.
- [45:32]
A
But for every seat. If not, it's not that the money is off limits forever. It just feels weird when it comes up before the. There's trust, intention, emotional momentum. Yeah, we agree with you. When someone volunteers their income early, it reads less like transparency, more like posturing or insecurity. It turns a normal date into a quiet evaluation I never asked for. For me, salary only makes sense once you're actually discussing logistics, moving in, long term goals, or a shared life. Before that. I just want to know if someone is stable, respectful and emotionally available. Dropping numbers too soon doesn't turn me on or feel helpful. It's performing it Feels performative. Honestly, a little icky. So my question is, when should salary come up in dating without killing the vibe or giving someone the ick? So we are establishing.
- [46:11]
B
Wow.
- [46:11]
A
Bringing up your income on a date. Tacky. Don't do it. We don't give a lot of rules here, but, like, I can't see a scenario where I need to say what I make on a date unless we're.
- [46:23]
B
Gonna buy a car.
- [46:24]
A
You don't need to share, you know? Right.
- [46:25]
B
You don't need to share that.
- [46:26]
A
So when do you talk about it?
- [46:28]
B
I think this person is not only probably incredibly hot, but also has a great head on their shoulders.
- [46:33]
A
It's a great email.
- [46:34]
B
It's a great email. I think the salary conversation actually should come up exactly when she mentioned when they are discussing logistics. So I'll tell you when I. When me and my husband talked about it, we actually talked about it about 30 days in into our relationship very early.
- [46:48]
A
Are you in an established relationship?
- [46:50]
B
No, barely.
- [46:51]
A
But you're, like, talking.
- [46:52]
B
Yeah, but. But hear me out on why. My girl roommate and I had moved into this apartment that we were thought. That we thought was going to be amazing. Turns out there was a cockroach infestation. So then I ended up grabbing an overnight bag with, like, just some basic clothes and I hightailed it over to my now husband's apartment.
- [47:11]
A
Yeah.
- [47:12]
B
And I was in tears. And I stayed with him. And I was staying with him for like a week, and then it became two weeks. And then I was like, what the hell am I doing? And so I sat him down and I was like, listen, this is how much I make. This is how much it's gonna cost for me to break my lease on this apartment. I don't have anything else. Like, I don't have any other money saved. I can't afford to pay you and your kind roommate who's allowing me to basically bum, like, you know, bum on your couch, Right? Like, I. I can't do that. And then I laid it all out there. I got fully financially naked. And that was the right moment to have the conversation. One, because we were starting to think about, like, becoming exclusive, right? And two, like, we ended up sharing a lot in that moment. He told me how much he made, how much. You know, we talked about debt. We talked about everything, Right? And it mattered because it was actually a logistical planning conversation.
- [48:08]
A
Right? And also, you got to like, I think like, any time something said without being earned, it's like, it does feel like there's a manipulation going on.
- [48:18]
B
Yeah.
- [48:19]
A
Like, you. Are you together a month. You've shared some things. You were probably intimate in some sort of way. And then you go to him and you go, listen, I'm.
- [48:27]
B
We were spending every single weekend together.
- [48:29]
A
Half of the weeknights, I'm going through some shit. I'm not bringing this up to, like, you said, logistical. Like, I'm not bringing this up to, like, get me somewhere.
- [48:37]
B
Yeah.
- [48:37]
A
I'm bringing this up to let you know where I'm at.
- [48:38]
B
Yeah.
- [48:39]
A
What's going on? Yeah, yeah, I think, like, but that's a feel thing again. Like, that's like, you know, romance versus science. It's like, so, like, to answer their question, like, there's no answer other than, like, obviously that things needs to come up, but obviously it has to be someone you're comfortable with. And, like, I don't think anyone's gonna get the ick from you if you are already realizing it shouldn't be said on a first date.
- [49:00]
B
Right.
- [49:04]
A
Let's do another email. You can. We're going to play a game. You ready to play some games? I love Red flag or deal breaker. It is the game that's sweeping the country. You're dating someone, there's one thing that happens. It is either a red flag, you notice it, you keep going, or it's a deal breaker. We are done. Sight unseen. But it's a great date already. Okay, so things are going great. Okay, so this to make it a deal breaker and visualizing. Okay, ready?
- [49:27]
C
Yep.
- [49:28]
A
J and J. My boyfriend, 29, and I, female, 27, have been together for about a year and a half and have recently started talking about marriage. He comes from a lot of money and will receive a good bit of money once his parents pass away. My family is upper middle class, but has nowhere near the amount of money that he does. He mentioned the other day that when we get married, he will ask me to sign a prenup. I'm not quite sure how I feel about it. It seems like it's almost an insurance policy in case we get divorced. And I don't know why he would want to get married if he already thinks we might get divorced. Is this the new norm? He's claiming that the government has a. Anytime you bring up the government in a relationship conversation, we're not talking anymore. Like, the government has a prenup on us. I don't even know what that means.
- [50:12]
B
I do. So keep going.
- [50:13]
A
What is. Okay. He's claiming that the government has a prenup on us, so why not create our Own and have control over it. As finances get messy, let's relieve ourselves from that burden. I'm just not sure what to do or how to feel. Red flagger, deal breaker. He's talking about divorce before we even get engaged.
- [50:28]
B
Honestly, this is neither. This is a green flag. And the fact that this person is so, like, reticent. I don't want to say that's a red flag for her, but I actually think there might just need to be a little bit of education here. So the government comment.
- [50:46]
A
Yeah. What does that mean when I say.
- [50:47]
B
Like, oh, let's get a prenup? It's a prenuptial agreement that we both go, we get our own attorneys and we draft a document explaining how assets will be, you know, split up in the case that things go south. If we don't get that document from our own lawyers. The government has a pre established one that applies to all marriages. That is just kind of like the boilerplate.
- [51:13]
A
That is a. Well, you know what's funny about that? And because this email to me is all about perspective.
- [51:20]
B
Yeah.
- [51:21]
A
Her perspective is written in the email. Why would he want to get married if he already thinks we might get divorced? Like, that is such a different view of a prenup than what you just explained. What you just explained is this is already happening. This is already set in stone. Why wouldn't we want take more control over it so that we can have a say in how this would go down if it ever work.
- [51:47]
B
Correct.
- [51:48]
A
In the if and when and horrific circumstances. That's like saying, why would you want to get life insurance? Are you trying to kill me?
- [51:55]
B
Right?
- [51:55]
A
You know, it's like, that's not how life insurance works.
- [51:58]
B
Do you get health insurance? I hope you don't plan on getting sick.
- [52:01]
A
Right.
- [52:01]
B
Do you have home insurance? I don't think you expect a tornado to come through.
- [52:05]
A
And from his end with like a lot of wealth in the family, that might be that his family's like, hey, we think we're happy for you. We think you guys are a great couple. But our son takes money from us in a certain way. We want to make sure that because he takes some money from us, we're not at risk if this relationship goes down for our finances that are attached to him.
- [52:28]
B
And here's the other thing.
- [52:29]
A
Yeah.
- [52:30]
B
With ultra wealthy families, it isn't just mom and dad giving money to the son. There's usually some sort of trust and will in place. And more often than not, there are terms right in those documents that are like, if this Person does not get a prenup, they are not entitled to their allocation of the inheritance.
- [52:51]
A
So what we're saying is that this conversation is way more depthy than she's giving it credit for.
- [52:55]
B
Yeah.
- [52:56]
A
She's basically saying if you want a prenup, that means you're looking for an out. And we are both saying that is not the case. And if you can't have that conversation, you become the red flag.
- [53:05]
B
Correct.
- [53:05]
A
You know, and what he's saying with the government thing from my end, when I didn't know what that meant. And again, what you don't know creates fear, the unknown. When I hear him say, well, the government has a prenup on us anyways. It's funny, you and I, as a lesson to her, heard it in two different ways. I heard it as shithead trying to get out of a. Like, you heard it as. He is exactly right.
- [53:27]
B
He's correct. 1,000%.
- [53:29]
A
Very interesting. So we're both saying she's the red flag. He should dump her. No, I'm kidding. This money grubbing bitch. Get rid of her. No. So, all right, let's do one more. You ready?
- [53:42]
C
Yeah.
- [53:43]
A
Red flag or deal breaker. He asked you out on a third date, picks the restaurant, she puts in parentheses a pricey one, but then at the end asked to split the bill. Shouldn't he have paid? Red flag to me. Tbd, if there will be a fourth date, would love your ruling. So red flag or deal breaker chooses a pricey restaurant, asked to split the tab.
- [54:05]
B
I think for me, it's probably a deal breaker.
- [54:08]
A
Yeah.
- [54:08]
B
I'll tell you why, please. It's because this person is not conscientious. Like this, this, like this person that she is going on a date with is not a conscientious person, which is just essentially being able to put yourself in someone else's shoes and understand where they are living and existing.
- [54:28]
A
I love that. Because thoughtfulness is so important. So important.
- [54:34]
B
And it's not about the fact that he chose a pricey restaurant. It's about the fact that he assumed she would pay for half of it when he chose. If that was the case, he should have been like, would love to go to this restaurant. Know it's a little bit of a. Of a pricier spot. How do you feel? And if she was like, oh, okay, that sounds like I'm gonna have to pay. And she's like, oh, you know, I'm not really in a position to go there. They should have picked a cheaper place.
- [54:59]
A
Right. I. The problem with the word pricey is that it's different. It's different. Pricey to you and pricey to me are different. You're at the Man. Okay. You're pricey is like, oh, my God, Jared. I'm sitting here in, you know, the, the Hilton Garden Inn. Not, you know, so I mean, pricey to me, you know, might be the market, you know, the chips of the market. But I, I, I think the idea, you know, hey, do you want to go out with me? And then here's the place we're going.
- [55:25]
B
Yeah.
- [55:25]
A
It's almost like you've stolen valor, you know, like not to, like, you know, take on. Now I'm stealing valor from, you know, I'm not trying. I'm just saying, like the idea that you got to look hot up until the last moment.
- [55:38]
B
Yes.
- [55:38]
A
And then the last moment, you kind of take it away. But we did go to the nice restaurant. You did show me. You did pick a place like, you did all this and then you ruined it at the end.
- [55:47]
B
Yeah.
- [55:47]
A
With this, like, hey, let's go splitsies on a really pricey, fancy place that you tried to, like, kind of get some street cred from, to take back.
- [55:59]
B
Take us back to the Amman Hilton Garden, in example. Like someone. I also would like to hope that someone who is staying at a place like the Amman also has the general sense of reality to recognize that most people can't stay there.
- [56:14]
A
Right.
- [56:14]
B
And that more average consumers need to stay at hotels at lower price points.
- [56:19]
A
Right.
- [56:19]
B
So, like, if that is the case, and this is Mr. Fancy Schmancy.
- [56:23]
A
Sure.
- [56:24]
B
Even if it's not pricey for him, he should probably have a sense. This is date three. This is not first date day three.
- [56:31]
A
That's why if we think of things on a spectrum.
- [56:34]
C
Yeah.
- [56:34]
A
Like let's, let's believe he's the most evil, most aware and unaware person. Let's go. On the spectrum of unaware to aware, he's either unaware that this place is expensive and that. And he's made no thought to your circumstance to be comfortable on a date. That sucks.
- [56:52]
B
Yeah.
- [56:53]
A
Or he's so aware of the price of this place that he realized the date wasn't going the way he wanted.
- [56:59]
B
It to go and then asked you to subsidize it.
- [57:01]
A
Right. So both, both are bad. So it's a deal breaker.
- [57:05]
C
Yeah.
- [57:05]
A
Like, like it is. It's either he didn't get sex from the expensive date he was bringing you on, or he doesn't think of other people.
- [57:14]
B
Correct.
- [57:15]
A
So for that reason, I'm in Deal breaker land. And again, this paying conversation again. This is why I love doing the show. It's a fraudulent bad actor conversation people get involved in because you can split a date and still have it be okay. You can prefer to split a date because you don't want to be in a position where you owe anyone anything. Those are all real feelings. You can say you love to pay for dates and it means nothing to you. You just like to pay for dates that you ask people out on. Yeah, all are allowed. But when it comes to this, a little more nuanced.
- [57:45]
B
Yeah.
- [57:46]
A
So Vivian too. A pleasure having you here. We solved dating.
- [57:50]
B
We solved dating.
- [57:51]
A
We did it. Everyone go buy Vivian to his book. The link is in the episode bio wherever you're listening or watching. It is called well endowed at your rich dot.
- [58:03]
B
Yeah.
- [58:03]
A
So you even need the do.
- [58:05]
B
No.
- [58:06]
A
You can find you at your rich bff. I kept reading it. You're dot rich bff. And I was like, you can say at your rich bff.
- [58:13]
B
You can find me everywhere as your rich bff and you can grab a copy of the book well endowed@richbff book.com Amazing.
- [58:21]
A
Thank you so much for being such a wonderful guest and also our first maternity leave guest. We gotta have you back when Jordana's back, people. Thank you for listening to the show. Thank you for watching. Send in your emails uupetches.com subscribe do all the things comment. Let us know the parts you liked, the parts you didn't like, the parts that made you angry, the parts that made you happy, the parts that made you laugh. We love a comment. We love a share. We'll be back next week. Boom.
- [58:54]
B
Betches.