Podcast
Working to Work
Hosted by Samuel Robinson · EN
Working to Work explores the intersection of neurodivergence and employment, asking why autistic people and the wider neurodivergent community often struggle to obtain and sustain meaningful work, and how that significantly shapes not only their working lives but their lives as a whole. Through incisive interviews with neurodivergent creatives, as well as politicians, academics, and business leaders, the series examines interpersonal and structural barriers and practical solutions.
21episodes
Episodes
Newest firstAll episodes
S2 EP2 - The (Autistic) Audio Rainbow of an Radio Producer | Robin Blamires
Jan 27, 202501:00:00Tap to summarizeFeaturing Robin Blamires’ epic soundpiece 'The Audio Rainbow', exploring his passion for radio, the challenges of finding fulfilling creative work, and their broader impacts.
Transcribe →Responding to the Government’s Manifesto for Work on BBC Radio
Nov 27, 202400:16:24Tap to summarizeOn 26th November 2024 the UK Government published a white paper detailing their plans to ‘Get Britain Working’. This paper included plans to support disabled and neurodivergent individuals, and people experiencing mental ill health. I spoke with BBC Radio 5 Live host, Gordon Smart about what challenges neurodivergent people experience obtaining and maintaining work, the difficulties that can result, and what the new Labour can do to address these problems. Please do follow the show to be notified when new episodes are released, and leave a rating and review if you appreciate it, or have feedback. You can subscribe to the YouTube channel for video versions of each episode, and the opportunity to engage via the comments section. For more see the Working to Work home page, and follow on Twitter and Instagram @workingtoworkuk
Transcribe →A Little Update... Part 3
Nov 25, 202400:04:26Tap to summarizeIn this update, I reflect on Season One and share my plans for the next chapter of Working to Work. Season Two will focus on neurodivergent creatives and the unique challenges and strengths they bring to their work, exploring themes like mental health, representation, and navigating creative industries. Please do follow the show to be notified when new episodes are released, and subscribe to the YouTube channel for video versions of each episode, and the opportunity to engage via the comments section. For more see the Working to Work home page, and follow on Twitter and Instagram @workingtoworkuk
Transcribe →What’s Next After the Buckland Review on Autism and Employment?
Oct 15, 202400:11:26Tap to summarizeIn this clip cut from the full episode, Sir Robert Buckland outlines the key findings from the Buckland Review of Autism Employment, which focuses on breaking down barriers autistic individuals face in the workforce. He discusses crucial steps such as reducing stigma and launching the Neurodiversity Employers Index, alongside the review’s 19 recommendations. Sir Robert also explains the next steps, including the formation of a dedicated task group to oversee the implementation of these recommendations, along with speeding up existing support programs like Access to Work. The task group will play a pivotal role in advising on policy, reforming recruitment processes, and supporting employers in creating more accessible workplaces. Please do follow the show to be notified when new episodes are released, and subscribe to the YouTube channel for video versions of each episode, and the opportunity to engage via the comments section. For more see the Working to Work home page, and follow on Twitter and Instagram @workingtoworkuk
Transcribe →Neurodiversity and Employment | Findings and Recommendations from the Buckland Review
Sep 19, 202400:59:01Tap to summarizeIn this episode, I follow up with Sir Robert Buckland to discuss the findings of his review on autism and employment. We explore key barriers that neurodivergent individuals face in the workforce and the practical recommendations outlined in the report. From improving recruitment processes to making workplaces more inclusive, we cover what needs to change to better support autistic and neurodivergent employees. The conversation also touches on the broader implications for businesses and how creating more inclusive environments can benefit everyone. Time stamps below: The Buckland Review of Autism Employment: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/the-buckland-review-of-autism-employment-report-and-recommendations 00:00 coming up 00:28 episode intro 05:41 intro to the robert and the review 12:03 primary findings 15:47 how to change hiring practices 21:37 supporting nd employees in work 27:10 autistica’s NDEI update 33:46 what about artists and freelancers? 39:31 implementing the recommendations 42:47 measuring the results 45:46 what is a ‘task group’? 51:07 robert’s overall thoughts 53:52 sam final thoughts Please do follow the show to be notified when new episodes are released, and subscribe to the YouTube channel for video versions of each episode, and the opportunity to engage via the comments section. For more see the Working to Work home page, and follow on Twitter and Instagram @workingtoworkuk
Transcribe →Who Does Inclusion Exclude? | Rebecca McGinnis
Sep 12, 202400:59:01Tap to summarizeIn this episode I speak with Rebecca McGinnis, Senior Managing Educator of Accessibility at the Metropolitan Museum of Art, about the limitations of traditional inclusion models. We explore how her work in creating more meaningful inclusion for disabled visitors goes beyond basic accessibility, and draw parallels to the workplace, particularly for neurodivergent workers. We discuss how genuine inclusion involves recognising and appreciating individuals’ strengths, and fostering working practices and cultures that support them. The episode also includes a review of Glassdoor’s policies to assess whether it is a neurodivergent-friendly employer. Time stamps coming soon! Who Does Inclusion Exclude?: Disability and the Limitations of Models of Inclusion: https://issuu.com/spage-clarkart/docs/what-we-may-be-art-museums-and-the-implications-of/s/10582548 Please do follow the show to be notified when new episodes are released, and subscribe to the YouTube channel for video versions of each episode, and the opportunity to engage via the comments section. For more see the Working to Work home page, and follow on Twitter and Instagram @workingtoworkuk
Transcribe →What Are Job Tailoring and Job Carving?
Sep 9, 202400:12:28Tap to summarizeIn this clip from Working to Work episode 13, I speak with Nanette Mellor, a charity CEO who has worked at Drake Music, the Brain Charity, Mencap, and other organisations supporting disabled individuals. Nanette shared how job tailoring and job carving—innovative practices that allow roles to be customised for individual strengths—benefit neurodivergent individuals and those with disabilities. While these practices are designed with inclusivity in mind, they also offer wider applications that may benefit non-disabled individuals by enhancing productivity and job satisfaction through personalised job roles. Nanette's interview with Eric Pines (referenced in the piece): https://medium.com/authority-magazine/neurodiversity-in-the-workforce-nanette-mellor-of-drake-music-on-why-its-important-to-include-dd46f7af503a Please do follow the show to be notified when new episodes are released, and subscribe to the YouTube channel for video versions of each episode, and the opportunity to engage via the comments section. For more see the Working to Work home page, and follow on Twitter and Instagram @workingtoworkuk
Transcribe →How to Lead a Neuro-Inclusive Organisation | Nanette Mellor Part 2
Aug 24, 202400:59:01Tap to summarizeIn this second part of my interview with charity CEO, Nanette Mellor (Brain Charity, Drake Music, Mencap) we discuss how to hire in ways that accommodate common neurodivergent needs, and practices to create a work culture that allows a diverse workforce to thrive including job tailoring, and carving. Chapters below: Nanette's interview with Eric Pines: https://medium.com/authority-magazine/neurodiversity-in-the-workforce-nanette-mellor-of-drake-music-on-why-its-important-to-include-dd46f7af503a Please do follow the show to be notified when new episodes are released, and subscribe to the YouTube channel for video versions of each episode, and the opportunity to engage via the comments section. For more see the Working to Work home page, and follow on Twitter and Instagram @workingtoworkuk Chapters: 00:00 coming up 00:35 episode intro 06:05: intro to nanette and her work 07:56 job interview challenges and strategies to mitigate 21:25 biases in hiring process 26:12 the bias of algorithms 28:30 what is job tailoring? 33:48 hiring is a skill to develop 35:58 what is job carving? 43:23: creating neuroinclusive workspaces 47:16 redundant workplace policies 50:24: creating an inclusive culture as a leader
Transcribe →A Future Vision for Neurodivergent Work & Education | Nanette Mellor Part 1
Jun 9, 202400:59:01Tap to summarizeFor this episode I spoke with Nanette Mellor, a disability and neurodiversity specialist, most recently working as a CEO of Drake Music, about their work championing neurodivergent strengths.Our conversation touches on how neurodivergent differences might be better understood and catered to in education; what diagnosis might look like in the future; and whether some of the skills historically considered essential are as crucial in the 21st century. We also spoke about the impact of AI for neurodivergent people in the workplace, how common neurodivergent strengths like creative thinking and becoming more valued, and about Nanettes own journey through employment, the challenges and strengths of being dyslexic, and how challenging convention can lead to resistance even in leadership positions. Chapters are below. Please do follow the show to be notified when new episodes are released, and subscribe to the YouTube channel for video versions of each episode, and the opportunity to engage via the comments section. For more see the Working to Work home page, and follow on Twitter and Instagram @workingtoworkuk Chapters 00:00 Coming up in this episode 00:42 Sam intro 04:22 Introduction to Nanette 08:23 Neurodivergent specific schooling 13:19 Are exams still worthwhile? 16:33 AI can’t think like a neurodivergent mind 19:15 Creating better education outcomes for ND people 23:26 Is ‘diagnosis’ necessary to get needs met? 28:38 Are essential skills still essential? 34:56 The benefits of creating thinking 41:06 Benefits of dyslexia to Nanette 45:12 Whether to disclose at work or not 48:30 Is it possible to be an authentic leader? 51:20 Challenges in a neurotypical workplace 54:05 Strengths that make Nanette a leader Links The article mentioned in the intro is an interview Nanette gave to Eric Pines titled “Neurodiversity in the Workforce”. It can be found here: https://medium.com/authority-magazine/neurodiversity-in-the-workforce-nanette-mellor-of-drake-music-on-why-its-important-to-include-dd46f7af503a
Transcribe →Load Theory & Perceptual Capacity Can Help You Work | Anna Remington
May 31, 202400:59:01Tap to summarizeI spoke with autism researcher Professor Anna Remington, Director of CRAE at UCL, about the notion of 'perceptual capacity'. The discussion covered what perceptual capacity is, its significance to neurodivergent people (spoiler: many autistic people have a high perceptual capacity), and how understanding and working with one's perceptual capacity can help improve effectiveness and mitigate challenges associated with increased sensory sensitivities. Chapters and links are below. Please do follow the show to be notified when new episodes are released, and subscribe to the YouTube channel for video versions of each episode, and the opportunity to engage via the comments section. For more see the Working to Work home page, and follow on Twitter and Instagram @workingtoworkuk Chapters: 00:00 Coming up 01:00 Episode intro 05:05 Introduction to Anna, and the work CRAE does 06:05 What is perceptual capacity and how does it relate to neurodivergence? 15:15 Finding the right level of sensory input for individuals 17:54 Individuals and employers recognising benefits of increased perceptual capacity 20:29 Identifying the type of work that suits one’s perceptual capacity 23:20 Perceptual Capacity is a cognitive function 25:09 What’s being done to increase awareness of perceptual capacity? 29:46 Challenges with a high perceptual capacity in work 30:58 Advantages to having a higher perceptual capacity in work 32:33 What might one look for in a job listing that suits high perceptual capacity? 36:42 Load theory and the road to understanding perceptual capacity 40:01 Can one control the extent of their perceptual capacity? 41:55 How does perceptual capacity relate to flow? 42:55 Can shifts in language change how society views differences? 45:40 Might perceptual capacity become a way to speak more accurately to experience? 52:41 Episode outro Links: ‘A storm of post-it notes’: Experiences of perceptual capacity in autism and ADHD: https://discovery.ucl.ac.uk/id/eprint/10187561/ Anxiety overrides the blocking effects of high perceptual load on amygdala reactivity to threat-related distractors: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21376745/ Not so fast: Rethinking the effects of action video games on attentional capacity: https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1111/j.1742-9536.2011.00001.x I can see clearly now: the effects of age and perceptual load on inattentional blindness: https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fnhum.2014.00229/full
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