Podcast
Ascend - The Great Books Podcast
Hosted by Harrison Garlick and Adam Minihan · EN
Welcome to Ascend!
We are a weekly Great Books podcast hosted by Deacon Harrison Garlick and Adam Minihan.
What are the Great Books?
The Great Books are the most impactful texts that have shaped Western civilization. They include ancients like Homer, Plato, St. Augustine, Dante, and St. Thomas Aquinas, and also moderns like Machiavelli, Locke, and Nietzsche. We will explore the Great Books with the light of the Catholic intellectual tradition.
Why should we read the Great Books?
Everyone is a disciple of someone. A person may have never read Locke or Nietzsche, but he or she thinks like them. Reading the Great Books allows us to reclaim our intellect and understand the origin of the ideas that shape our world. We enter a "great conversation" amongst the most learned, intelligent humans in history and benefit from their insights.
Is this for first-time readers?
YES. Our goal is to host meaningful conversations on the Great Books by working through the texts in chronological order in a slow, attentive manner. Our host Adam Minihan is a first-time reader of Homer. We will start shallow and go deep. All are invited to join.
Will any resources be available?
YES. We are providing a free 115 Question & Answer Guide to the Iliad written by Deacon Harrison Garlick in addition to our weekly conversations. It will be available on the website (launching next week).
Go pick up a copy of the Iliad!
We look forward to reading Homer with you in 2024.
92episodes
Episodes
Newest firstAll episodes
The Clouds by Aristophanes with Dr. Zina Hitz
Jul 1, 202501:08:52Summary readyIn this episode, Dcn. Harrison Garlick, Chancellor and General Counsel of the Roman Catholic Diocese of Tulsa, welcomes Dr. Zena Hitz, a tutor at St. John’s College and founder of the Catherine Project, to discuss Aristophanes’ comedic masterpiece, The Clouds. The episode dives into the play’s biting humor, its critique of Athenian society, and its timeless questions about education, piety, and moral decay. From the Thinkery’s absurd teachings to the mysterious Clouds, Dcn. Garlick and Zena unpack the play’s relevance to modern audiences, exploring themes of social ambition, familial breakdown, and the consequences of abandoning traditional values.Check out thegreatbookspodcast.com for our reading schedule and more!Check out our Patreon page for our library of written guides!Key Discussion PointsAristophanes and The Clouds: Born around 446 BC, Aristophanes, the father of comedy, wrote The Clouds in 423 BC, nearly a decade into the Peloponnesian War. The play, a revised version not performed but circulated for reading, critiques Athenian decadence and intellectual trends through the story of Strepsiades, a debt-ridden father, and his son Phidippides. “Aristophanes in general is interested in portraying through this kind of ridiculous, sometimes slapstick, sometimes obscene comedy, certain truths” – Dr. Zena Hitz (16:47).The Thinkery and Education: The Thinkery, led by Socrates, teaches deceptive rhetoric and speculative inquiries, parodying new intellectual movements. It raises questions about education’s societal role. “The question about what an education is for and whether it helps the community or hurts it is a very basic fundamental question” – Dr. Zena Hitz (19:53).Piety and Political Stability: The play links reverence for traditional gods to social cohesion, showing how the Thinkery’s impiety destabilizes family and polis. “Belief in the gods is standing in for… sticking to the moral code that’s keeping the whole society together” – Dr. Zena Hitz (31:08).Socrates’ Portrayal: Socrates is depicted as a buffoonish sophist, but his role is ambiguous—possibly a stand-in for broader trends rather than the historical figure. “Strepsiades is the target… Socrates in a way is just being used to show something up about Strepsiades” – Dr. Zena Hitz (44:01).The Clouds’ Role: The personified Clouds, worshipped in the Thinkery, symbolize deceptive speech and align with comic poets, adding complexity. “Clouds cover things up. So there’s some kind of image for deceptive speech” – Dr. Zena Hitz (49:20).Socio-Economic Context: Set in a wealthy but decadent Athens, the play critiques social ambition and debt, mirroring modern struggles. “It’s in a way a very American story” – Dr. Zena Hitz (24:00).Moral Precedent and Human Nature: Strepsiades’ attempt to bend moral standards for gain backfires, reflecting universal human flaws. “You never want the full consequences of that one piece of wrongdoing… It never works out that way” – Dr. Zena Hitz (33:47).Translation Challenges: The episode highlights the importance of choosing a translation that preserves Aristophanes’ puns and humor, with recommendations for Arrowsmith and Sommerstein. “The translation on the Aristophanes actually matters a lot” – Dcn. Harrison Garlick (54:58).About Our GuestDr. Zena Hitz is a tutor at St. John’s College and the founder and president of the Catherine Project, a nonprofit offering free, open-access reading groups and tutorials on great books (CatherineProject.org). Her work spans classical philosophy, focusing on law, character, and the human good, while her popular writings explore freedom, education, happiness, and faith. She is the author of A Philosopher Looks at the Religious Life, which examines the paradox of total renunciation in pursuit of happiness. Find her at ZenaHitz.net or on Twitter/X.COMING UPNext week we discuss The Frogs by Aristophanes with Tsh Oxenreider and then we'll circle up for a round table on the Greek plays as whole. AND THEN we launch into PLATO with an introductory episode and then two episodes on our first dialogue: First Alcibiades. Join us!
SummaryMadness and Piety: A Discussion on The Bacchae Part II
Jun 24, 202501:51:06Summary readyToday on Ascend: The Great Books Podcast, we plunge into the second part of Euripides’ The Bacchae—a harrowing yet gripping Greek tragedy that leads us deeper into the mystery of Dionysian eros. We’ll observe the tragic descent of King Pentheus, the Bacchae as a parasite upon society, and the haunting themes of eros, justice, and the question of piety under an evil god.Check out thegreatbookspodcast.com for our reading SCHEDULE.Check out our Patreon page for our 25 Q&A GUIDE to the Bacchae.From the guide:Why should you read The Bacchae?The Bacchae challenges readers to explore religion, erotics, piety, cosmic order, and human nature in a controversial and unsettling landscape. Euripides’ intent is not clear; thus, the reader is left to interpret a drama that seems to test longstanding Greek concepts, like piety and the gods.Dr. Grabowski acknowledges the play as an integral part of the “great conversation” in the Western canon, and Dcn. Garlick agrees by highlighting the play as an important antecedent to Plato’s Euthyphro and Symposium. Though the work includes disturbing imagery, it is within those images that Euripides is wrestling with erotics, piety, and the cosmos. Somewhat shockingly, the play presents several parallels to Jesus Christ and invites the reader into challenging comparisons. Overall, The Bacchae stands as an important—though controversial—work in exploring the nature of man and his relation to the divine.How is Agave’s death indicative of the destructive eros of Dionysus?The disordered eros of the Dionysian cult manifests as an anti-logos mania that is corrosive to the family and the natural political order. It brings societal instability. Dcn. Garlick explains that this Dionysian eros, unlike Plato’s ordered ascent through the ladder of love in the Symposium, is a “disordered erotics” that “spirals down to bestial releases.” It is notable that the first group affected by the Dionysian cult are women, and the first act of these crazed women is to abandon their husbands and children—and then run wild in the woods nursing animals and engaging in orgies. Euripides presents a scene of perversion, a perverted femininity and motherhood. The Bacchae also adopt masculine traits, like strength, a desire to hunt, and acts of violence—like tearing animals apart with their bare hands. Dr. Grabowski observes this all leads to the destruction of the polis, as “if you pervert women… there will be no children… no future generations, and… no polis.” The women’s rejection of domestic roles, driven by Dionysus’ “erotic mania,” fractures the social fabric, leading to a “complete and utter collapse… of a polis.”The climax of this societal destruction is Agave’s horrific act of killing her son, Pentheus, which Dcn. Garlick describes as the “zenith of this Dionysian madness,” epitomizing the cult’s perversion of natural relationships. Under Dionysus’ influence, Agave, “foaming at the mouth and her crazed eyes rolling with frenzy,” dismembers Pentheus, unaware he is her son until Cadmus restores her sanity. Dr. Grabowski calls this “sadistic” and “hideously perverse,” arguing it ensures “no polis… can survive if the Dionysian cult wins.” The murder of Thebes’ king by his mother symbolizes the ultimate collapse of political authority and familial bonds. This disordered eros, which Dcn. Garlick notes “robs you of your true identity,” transforms Thebes into a chaotic, sterile society.Check out more on the podcast and the guide!
SummaryMadness and Piety: A Discussion on The Bacchae Part I
Jun 17, 202502:26:55Summary readyMadness, piety, gore, and reason! Today on Ascend: The Great Books Podcast, host Dcn. Harrison Garlick and the always insightful Dr. Frank Grabowski delve into the first part of Euripides’ The Bacchae—a chilling yet captivating Greek tragedy that explores piety, eros, the nature of the divine, and the fragility of societal order.The guys explore Dionysus, a god transformed from Homer’s jovial wine deity into a “cruel” and “diabolical” figure worshipped through “frenzied madness and the bestial release of sex and violence." With its graphic imagery, raw intensity, and ambiguous morality, this play offers a rich discussion, serving as a critical antecedent to Plato’s Symposium and revealing surprising parallels to Jesus Christ amidst its sordid chaos.Join us as we peel back the “bloody, terrible layers” of this darkly mesmerizing drama.Visit thegreatbookspodcast.com for our reading schedule and more!Visit our Patreon page to view all our guides to the great books!Guest: Dr. Frank Grabowski: At the time of recordin, a professor of philosophy at Rogers State University, third-order Franciscan, and a valued member of the Sunday Great Books group. His profound insights into Greek literature and philosophy illuminate the complexities of The Bacchae. Dr. Grabowski now serves as the Dean of Faculty at Holy Family Classical School.Why should you read The Bacchae?The Bacchae challenges readers to explore religion, erotics, piety, cosmic order, and human nature in a controversial and unsettling landscape. Euripides’ intent is not clear; thus, the reader is left to interpret a drama that seems to test longstanding Greek concepts, like piety and the gods. Dr. Grabowski acknowledges the play as an integral part of the “great conversation” in the Western canon, and Dcn. Garlick agrees by highlighting the play as an important antecedent to Plato’s Euthyphro and Symposium.Though the work includes disturbing imagery, it is within those images that Euripides is wrestling with erotics, piety, and the cosmos. Somewhat shockingly, the play presents several parallels to Jesus Christ and invites the reader into challenging comparisons. Overall, The Bacchae stands as an important—though controversial—work in exploring the nature of man and his relation to the divine.Next Episodes:Next week, we continue with Part 2 of The Bacchae, diving into Pentheus’ tragic fall, the Bacchae’s destructive frenzy, and the play’s enigmatic conclusion. Upcoming episodes feature Aristophanes’ The Clouds with guest Zena Hits and The Frogs with Tish Oxenreider, as we pave the way for Plato’s dialogues.Thank You:A heartfelt thank you to Dr. Frank Grabowski for his brilliant insights and to our listeners for joining us on this ascent through the great books. Keep exploring, and we’ll see you next week for more of The Bacchae’s darkly mesmerizing drama!
SummaryCursed by the Gods: Oedipus at Colonus Part Two
Jun 10, 202501:49:26Summary readyToday on Ascend: The Great Books Podcast, Dcn. Garlick and Mr. Eli Stone discuss the second and final part of Oedipus at Colonus—wherein Sophocles brings the horrific tale of Oedipus to a beautiful, redemptive end.Deacon and Eli discuss the dramatic zenith of Oedipus’ life, the theme of redemptive suffering, the binding power of love, and all the various ways this play comments on the relationships in Antigone and Oedipus Rex.Go visit thegreatbookspodcast.com for our reading schedule!Check out this awesome guide to Oedipus at Colonus! Here is the opening of Deacon's guide to Oedipus at Colonus:Oedipus at Colonus is a beautiful tale. It brings a tremendous amount of meaning to the Oedipus Cycle. Sophocles offers us perennial truths on fate, the agency of man, and the cosmic whole. I greatly enjoyed, as a first time reader, the narrative of Oedipus at Colonus—especially the ending. It is a tremendous zenith to the Oedipus Cycle and one that parallels the Book of Job in its ability to address the question of suffering.Oedipus at Colonus remains an important text within the Western canon of great books, as it is a beautiful antecedent to how later thinkers, like St. Augustine, will come to understand the world as subject to Divine Providence. Sophocles offers several preliminary considerations on whether the fate that rules the world does so according to justice; and whether man must adopt a certain docility in consideration of such a fate. The balance, however, of man’s agency and fate’s dominion is a perennial question.I am in debt to Mr. Eli Stone who not only guided me through this work but highly recommended the podcast cover the Oedipus Cycle. I very much appreciate his insights and all the wisdom he has brought to our conversations.Amongst all the horrific suffering, Oedipus at Colonus is able to bring a theme of redemption to the story of Oedipus. Like Antigone, he serves as a sign of the gods—a sign of cosmic fate, docility to divine order, and the meaning of suffering. May we come to understand Sophocles’ lessons and how they invite us to a more ordered existence.Episode HighlightsRedemptive Death: Dcn. Garlick shares, “I fell in love with this play when Oedipus sees the thunder head rolling in… his ecstatic joy that death comes." Theseus’ Nobility: Theseus’ interruption of sacrifice to save Oedipus’ daughters highlights Athenian justice: “Sojourners… are the special patronage of Zeus." Polyneices’ Tragedy: Oedipus’ curse on Polyneices sets up Antigone: “Please bury me… we’re setting the foundation… for the first play."Love’s Role: Antigone’s mediation and Oedipus’ farewell underscore love’s binding power: “She is love and love binds," as Deacon note.Guest Spotlight: Eli StoneEli Stone returns, bringing his expertise from his time at the Chancery, his discernment with the Western Dominicans, and his current role at the University of Tulsa Honors College. His passion shines through: “These are my favorite Greek plays… I’ve really enjoyed them." Eli’s insights on providence, love, and historical allegory enrich the discussion.Next Episode TeaserNext week, we dive into Euripides’ Bacchae, a stark contrast to the Theban plays, raising questions of divine madness and human limits. Join us for this intriguing exploration on Ascend the Great Books Podcast!Let us hear from you!Follow our account on X and let us know what you thought of Oedipus at Colonus and the Theban plays overall!Those who support us on Patreon have access to our written guides. We appreciate all their support.
SummaryCursed by the Gods: Oedipus at Colonus Part One
Jun 3, 202502:05:45Summary readyIn this episode of Ascend the Great Books Podcast, Deacon Harrison Garlick and returning guest Eli Stone dive into the first half of Sophocles’ Oedipus at Colonus, the third play in the Theban cycle by publication order but the second in narrative chronology.Check out thegreatbookspodcast.com for our reading schedule.Check out Patreon page for written guides to the great books!Recorded in rural Oklahoma, this episode explores Oedipus’ transformation from a cursed exile to a figure of divine significance, set against the backdrop of Athens’ post-Peloponnesian War turmoil.The hosts unpack key themes like suffering’s pedagogical purpose, the role of prophecy, guest friendship (xenia), and Athenian identity, while reflecting on Sophocles’ intent for his audience. Expect a deep dive into the characters of Oedipus, Antigone, Ismene, Creon, and Theseus, with a focus on how their interactions foreshadow the play’s redemptive conclusion.Why should you read Oedipus at Colonus part one?Oedipus at Colonus Part 1 offers a compelling entry into Sophocles’ profound exploration of suffering, redemption, and divine will, making it essential reading for anyone seeking to understand the human condition through the lens of Greek tragedy.This section introduces Oedipus as a blind exile, transformed by suffering into a figure of spiritual insight—“Oedipus… has this spiritual insight… He is the most lucid he’s ever been"—setting the stage for his role as a “sign of both suffering and blessing." Through themes like guest friendship (xenia), the evolving justice of the Eumenides, and the binding power of Antigone’s love—Sophocles crafts a narrative that resonates with an Athenian audience grappling with their own post-Peloponnesian War identity, while offering timeless reflections on providence and resilience: “Man is not his own agent… inside a cosmic order." Reading this part immerses you in the tension and anticipation of Oedipus’ redemptive arc, preparing you for the transcendent conclusion in Part 2.Check out our written guide for more!Next Episode TeaserJoin us next week for Oedipus at Colonus Part 2, where we’ll witness Oedipus’ dramatic confrontations with Creon and Polyneices, and the transcendent moment of his death that ties the Theban cycle together.We’ll explore how his suffering becomes a blessing for Athens, the role of love as a binding agent, and the historical allegory for an Athenian audience. Deacon Garlick shares, “I fell in love with this play when Oedipus sees the thunder head rolling in… his ecstatic joy that death comes." Don’t miss it on Ascend the Great Books Podcast!
SummaryKnow Thyself: A Discussion on Oedipus the King by Sophocles
May 27, 202502:28:58Summary readyAristotle said Oedipus the King was the best tragedy. Today, Dcn. Harrison Garlick is joined by Mr. Eli Stone and our friend Josiah to discuss Oedipus the King (Oedipus Rex) by Sophocles - the second play in the Oedipus cycle or Theban plays.Check out thegreatbookspodcast.com for our reading schedule and more!Check out our Patreon for our written guides!Here is a letter Dcn. Garlick wrote to our supporters about Oedipus the King:Oedipus the King is, according to Aristotle, the best of the Greek tragedies. Through Oedipus’ own investigation, he comes to understand the horrific truth of his identity—and this leads the reader into marvelous reflection on fate, freedom, self-knowledge, and the cosmic order.Oedipus the King is a play I had to come to appreciate. Unlike Antigone, it is not one I loved at first. In fact, my lackluster appreciation for the play is why I scheduled only one episode discussing it. Over time, however, I matured in my own understanding and see it as an antecedent to the philosophical principle of know thyself. I would suggest one could glean much from comparing Oedipus the King and First Alcibiades by Plato.The drama does have layers for the attentive reader. It presents clearly a question on the interplay of freedom and fate, which is reminiscent of our discussions on the Iliad. Moreover, there is much to consider on the theme of suffering, and how that theme is presented in the Odyssey, the Oresteia, and Oedipus the King. Note that these two concepts are tethered—as the journey to self-knowledge is often an arduous one of suffering and great difficulty. Lastly, the work shines further light onto the mystery that is Antigone.Oedipus the King is without question a tragedy—and one without much hope. The reader must hold for the marvelous redemptive arc of Oedipus at Colonus, which runs parallel to the story of Job yet with its own unique and fascinating character.May Oedipus serve as an icon for what it means to suffer into self-knowledge and the role of such suffering in the pursuit of wisdom and virtue.Check our thegreatbookspodcast.com for more!
SummaryThe Dark Sign of the Gods: Antigone by Sophocles Part II
May 20, 202502:08:13Summary readyDoes Antigone hold strong until the end? Is Antigone the hero? Today, Dcn. Garlick is joined again by David Niles and Dr. Frank Grabowski to discuss the second part of Sophocles' Antigone. Check out thegreatbookspodcast.com for our reading schedule!Check out our Patreon page! We appreciate all our supporters.From our guide:15. How does Haemon’s interaction with Creon highlight his character and challenge Creon’s perspective?Haemon, Creon’s son and Antigone’s betrothed, enters around line 700 and is described by David as “one of my favorite characters” for his wisdom and patience, contrasting with Creon’s “chaotic” and “irrational” behavior. Haemon employs “masterful rhetoric,” as Dcn. Garlick contends, that balances filial piety with a Socratic challenge to Creon’s stubbornness, urging him to reconsider his decree to execute Antigone. He suggests the polis mourns for Antigone, saying, “It’s for me to catch the murmurs in the dark, the way the city mourns for this young girl” (ln. 775), undermining Creon’s belief that the polis supports him. Dr. Grabowski notes Haemon’s “epistemological challenge,” raising “human fallibility” and the “voice of the people” to suggest Creon may have erred. However, Creon’s ironic responses, like “Are you coming now raving against your father or do you love me no matter what I do?” (ln. 707), reveal his fixation on his own political authority and the familial piety Haemon owes him. Sophocles makes Creon an incredibly ironic character, who will often advise to others exactly what he himself should be doing.16. How does Creon’s character evolve in the latter half of the drama?Creon (arguably) begins the play prioritizing the polis’ common good, but in the second half, there is a “shift” toward tyranny as his view becomes myopically focused on his own authority. Initially, he justifies leaving Polyneices unburied as justice for being a traitor, but by line 748, he declares, “The man the city places in authority, his orders must be obeyed, large and small, right and wrong,” signaling a move from considerations of justice to his own authority. The standard by which he makes his decision seems to shift. His question, “Am I to rule this land for others or myself?” (ln. 823), elicits Haemon’s rebuke, “It’s no city at all owned by one man alone” (ln. 824). Creon’s claim, “Show me the man who rules his household well. I’ll show you someone fit to rule the state” (ln. 739), is deeply ironic, as he fails to rule his household, foreshadowing his spiral into tragedy. His fixation on anarchy as “a greater crime in all the earth” (ln. 752) over blasphemy further reveals his “blindness” to the divine, cementing his “de-evolution” into tyranny, as Dcn. Garlick notes. Under Creon, the cosmos whole that was first interpreted through the political now seems to simply be reducible to Creon’s will. He becomes the tyrant.Check out our guide for more!
SummaryAntigone by Sophocles Part I
May 13, 202502:10:19Summary readyAntigone is the "dark sign from the gods." Today, Dcn. Harrison Garlick is joined by Mr. David Niles of the Catholic Man Show and Dr. Frank Grabowski to discuss the Greek tragedy "Antigone" by Sophocles.Check out thegreatbookspodcast.com for our reading schedule!Check out our Patreon for our guide on Antigone!From the guide:This guide, like the podcast conversation, explores Antigone as a profound meditation on piety, justice, and the cosmic order. This guide addresses critical aspects of arguably Sophocles’ greatest work, such as: the moral conflict over burying the dead, the contrasting perspectives of Antigone, Ismene, and Creon, and the play’s potential as an early articulation of natural law—all while highlighting Sophocles’ role as a teacher shaping Greek thought.The guide also moves from Greek notion of piety and justice to comparative Christian ethics. The goal is to help the reader love Antigone and see the cosmic order it reveals through one of the greatest female characters in Western literature.What has occurred just prior to the start of Antigone?Just before the events of Sophocles’ Antigone, the city of Thebes has been ravaged by a civil war between Antigone’s two brothers, Eteocles and Polyneices, who are sons of the late Oedipus, the former king. After Oedipus’ tragic downfall and death, the brothers were meant to share the throne, but a dispute led to conflict. Eteocles held power in Thebes, while Polyneices, exiled, rallied an army to attack the city and reclaim his right to rule. The brothers met on the battlefield and killed each other in combat, leaving Thebes without a clear ruler. Their uncle, Creon, assumes the throne and declares Eteocles a patriot, granting him a proper burial, while branding Polyneices a traitor, forbidding his burial under penalty of death. This decree sets the stage for the moral and familial conflict at the heart of Antigone, as Antigone and her sister Ismene grapple with the consequences of their brothers’ deaths and Creon’s edict.What is the central moral conflict introduced at the beginning of Antigone?The central moral conflict revolves around the duty to bury the dead, specifically Antigone’s desire to bury her brother, Polyneices, who has been declared a traitor by their uncle, King Creon. Creon decrees that Polyneices’ body must remain unburied, to be “torn apart by the dogs, by the birds,” as punishment for his betrayal of Thebes. Antigone, however, sees the burial as a moral obligation, rooted in familial piety and divine law. The burial of the brother, however, is a catalyst to deeper moral concerns, as how to resolve this moral conflict invites the reader to contemplate how the family, polis, and divine all align with one another within the cosmos. It is a question of law, piety, and justice.Check out more on our Patreon!
SummaryPrometheus Bound by Aeschylus with Dr. Jared Zimmerer
May 6, 202501:48:54Summary readyHow would you respond to the will of a tyrant? Today, Dcn. Harrison Garlick is joined by Dr. Jared Zimmerer of Benedictine College to discuss Aeschylus' Prometheus Bound - the first play in an otherwise lost triad. Check out thegreatbookspodcast.com for our reading schedule!WHY SHOULD YOU READ PROMETHEUS BOUND?From the guide:Prometheus Bound is the story of man and civilization. Within the contrast of Prometheus’ rebellion and Zeus’ tyranny, Aeschylus provides a narrative that explores the concepts of liberty and purpose. It is a story of human nature—of the identity of man and the role of technology in shaping that identity.As the conversation with Dr. Zimmerer and Dcn. Garlick highlights, the play “tells us about human nature” by exploring Prometheus as “an anti-hero” who defies Zeus’ tyranny and embodies our natural desire to rebel against oppressive authority. The lines of the good and evil, however, are not straightforward in Prometheus Bound—and many characters must make difficult decisions and compromises.Though not in the play itself, the chief act of rebellion is Prometheus stealing fire from Mount Olympus. It is, in many ways, an analogue of technological progress. Technology is the creation of man but often makes claims upon the nature of its creator. Prometheus Bound invites the reader to reflect upon how technology can bring civilizational ascension or collapse (think atomic power and Oppenheimer).As Dr. Zimmerer observes, in an age where culture is often flattened into “pop cultural” shallowness, the play challenges us to engage with the beauty and depth of human civilization—urging us to resist the trivialization of our divine gifts. By wrestling with these themes, Prometheus Bound not only illuminates the struggles of its characters but also compels us to examine our own drives, freedoms, and responsibilities in shaping the cultural legacy of mankind.Check out our Patreon page!Check out thegreatbookspodcast.com!
SummaryHow to Read the Bible like St. Thomas Aquinas and Dante
Apr 29, 202501:29:35Summary ready"Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ." Today, Dcn. Harrison Garlick is joined by Mr. Thomas Lackey and Mr. Adam Minihan to discuss how to read the Bible like Jesus, St. Paul, the Early Church Fathers, St. Thomas Aquinas, and Dante!There are four senses: literal, allegorical, moral, and anagogical. The guys explain Divine Authorship, Dante's thesis that you read his Comedy like you Scripture, and then explain each sense and give examples.Check our thegreatbookspodcast.com for resources on the Iliad, Odyssey, Dante's Inferno, and more!Summary: St. Jerome states, “Ignorance of the Scriptures is ignorance of Christ” (CCC 112). In other words, we come to know the reality of Jesus Christ by reading Holy Scripture. Yet, what if we read the Bible incorrectly? If the Scriptures are a source of knowledge about our Lord, would not a wrong reading of the text twist our understanding of Christ? We, especially as moderns, are always in danger of distorting the Gospel to meet our own ideological standards. As Bishop Konderla teaches, “We are called to measure ourselves against the teaching of Christ and His Church, not our own imaginations or standards.” He continues, “We must receive the Jesus Christ who came two-thousand years ago, not create a ‘Jesus’ who meets the fashions and fads of this age” (God Builds a House, 6). If we are to discipline ourselves to receive Jesus—and not manufacture a “Jesus”—then a vital part of that reception is a proper understanding of how to know Christ in Holy Scripture. How then does the Church teach us to read Holy Scripture?In the 1300s, the Italian poet Dante Alighieri wrote a letter to his patron, Lord Cangrande della Scala, regarding how one should read the Divine Comedy. His answer was simple: you read the Comedy the same way you read the Bible. In summary of Sacred Tradition, Dante explains that there are four senses or ways to read Holy Scripture: literal and three spiritual ways, i.e., allegorical, moral, and anagogical. These four senses were also taught by St. Thomas Aquinas (STI.1.10) and are contained in the modern Catechism of the Catholic Church (“CCC” 115-19). They represent the time-tested wisdom of the Church on how to come to know and love Jesus Christ through the Holy Scriptures.Let us examine each “sense” of biblical interpretation, how it relates to the others, and how they all draw us into a deeper relationship with our Lord.The literal sense of Scripture is also known as the “historical sense.” St. Thomas notes the literal sense is the meaning the author intended. For example, Dante gives the simple illustration of the passage: “When Israel went out of Egypt.” He observes, “If we look at it from the letter alone it means to us the exit of the Children of Israel from Egypt at the time of Moses.” The literal is simply the intended, historical meaning of a text. It is important, however, to interpret the literal correctly, because “all other senses of Sacred Scripture are based on the literal” (CCC 116). Similarly, Aquinas states that the spiritual sense of Scripture—allegorical, moral, and anagogical—is “based on the literal and presupposes it.” The importance of the literal sense of Scripture as foundational to all other senses emphasizes how vital it is that Catholics read commentaries that are faithful to the magisterium. Like a broken foundation of a home, a slanted literal sense can distort the greater spiritual senses built upon it.The allegorical sense is the first of the three types of the “spiritual sense.” In the allegorical sense, Dante teaches that the aforementioned verse about Israel exiting Egypt “means for us our redemption done by Christ.” But what does the exodus of Israel have to do with Christ? A lot. In the allegorical sense, the reader is always looking for types or signs of how one thing in Scripture signifies another. For example, Israel in bondage to Egypt is similar to us in bondage to sin. Here, Moses would be a type of Christ. He leads the People of God out of Egypt to the Promise Land, as Christ leads us out from sin and into grace and salvation. Moses serves as a sign pointing forward to the reality of Christ. Moreover, both Israel and the Christian faithful find the portal of their salvation through water: the Red Sea and Holy Baptism (CCC 117). In their journey to the Promised Land, the Israelites are given bread from heaven, mana; and in our earthly journey toward our Promised Land, heaven, we are given the Bread of Angels, the Holy Eucharist. Christ himself makes this allegorical comparison in the Eucharist Discourse (John 6). The relationship between the allegorical and the literal gives rise to a fundamental principle of reading the Bible: the Old Testament foreshadows the New, and the New Testament perfects the Old. This dynamic between the Old and New Testament, as expressed in signs, serves as an allegorical foundation to both the moral sense and the anagogical sense.The moral sense answers the question: how should I act? It is arguably the spiritual sense with which we are most familiar when trying to read Scripture. The Church teaches, “The events reported in Scripture ought to lead us to act justly” (CCC 117). What moral lesson does Dante draw from Israel leaving Egypt? As noted, the moral sense is informed by the allegorical. For example, Dante presents Israel leaving Egypt as “the conversion of the soul from the struggle and misery of sin to the status of grace.” We take the comparisons drawn from the allegorical sense and apply them to our own pursuit of holiness. If Israel leaving the bondage of Egypt is like humanity being delivered by Christ, then how can I apply this lesson to my own moral life? How can I leave behind sin and pursue holiness? St. Thomas says the moral sense focuses on “things done in Christ,” and “what we ought to do.” The allegorical can help the moral dimension of Scripture unfold into a beautiful guide to our earthly pilgrimage.The anagogical sense is arguably the most foreign to modern readers of Scripture. The Catechism expresses that the term anagogical comes from the Greek term anagoge which means “leading” (CCC 117). What is the Scripture ultimately leading us toward? The Church teaches that in the anagogical sense: “We can view realities and events in terms of their eternal significance, leading us toward our true homeland” (CCC 117). If the moral is how should I act? then the anagogical is what does this teach me about my final end, i.e., eternal happiness with God in heaven? Like the moral, the anagogical draws from the allegorical to find types and signs.As St. Thomas observes, the anagogical looks for signs that “signify what relates to eternal glory.” For example, Dante notes that the anagogical lesson of Israel leaving Egypt is the final salvation of “the blessed soul from the slavery of this corruption to the freedom of eternal glory.” The anagogical sense always points us toward our heavenly home.“Ignorance of the Scriptures is ignorance of Christ.” The four senses of Holy Scripture are a gift from our Sacred Tradition to delve deeper into the mystery of the Bible and thus, in turn, into the mystery of Jesus Christ. Interpreting Scripture aright allows us, as Bishop Konderla instructed, to receive the Jesus Christ that entered into history and not manufacture a “Jesus” out of the fads and fashions of our age. The literal, moral, allegorical, and anagogical senses are an invitation to configure ourselves to Jesus Christ and inoculate us against the errors of the present. May we, like Aquinas and Dante, come to love Jesus Christ in the Holy Bible.Check out thegreatbookspodcast.com for more!
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